Toyota Creating a "New" Performance orientated sub brand.

In reply to Kreb :

Oriented- from the orient with rent. 

Orientated- past tense of orient potato. 

Toyota's CEO has made comments recently about how the brand has basically gone too "vanilla" over the last decade or two, and has made public claims that he wants the brand to add more excitement and driving character back into their vehicles. That's why a new Supra is in the works, and I'd expect most of the new vehicles that they produce in coming months/years to have a bit more inspired driving dynamics. I think they basically want to be a larger version of Mazda, which isn't a bad thing for us but may or may not improve sales.

If it improves performance and looks then I like it.  

Interesting, but we'll have to see if they're actually given a free hand to make real performance parts or if the Department of Corporate Blandness refuses to let them.

The 2dr hatch looks good, but in the end it will turn out to be a lame attempt to make the cars look like something they aren't, exciting and fun to drive.

STM317 said:

Toyota's CEO has made comments recently about how the brand has basically gone too "vanilla" over the last decade or two, and has made public claims that he wants the brand to add more excitement and driving character back into their vehicles. That's why a new Supra is in the works, and I'd expect most of the new vehicles that they produce in coming months/years to have a bit more inspired driving dynamics. I think they basically want to be a larger version of Mazda, which isn't a bad thing for us but may or may not improve sales.

This is what I was referring to in my post earlier.  Toyota is aware of the problem, and they are trying to do something about it.  Of course plenty of people are here are already shooting it down with no further information.

In other news, I hear the 2018 Camry is a huge step up in handling dynamics if you get one of the SE models.  With 300hp I'm sure there is some level of excitement to be achieved.

Toyota's attempt at a youth sub-brand had an average buyer age that was higher than Oldsmobile's. Can't wait to see how a performance sub-brand turns out.

We miss ya' old Toyota.  Where are the Turbos?  The Superchargers?  The AWD?  The image above is a supercharged, intercooled, mid-engine, AWD system...from a minivan!

It's about time that Toyota did something to gain some excitement.  That said, they need more than high performance accessories and styling.  They need to differentiate with more exciting power trains and performance suspensions to gain some credibility.  Think Corolla GTS or GT4.

Also a new Supra will be great, but it will cost $80k and sell less than 2000 units.  They need something more reasonable priced,  like a turbo AE86, or take the CT200h from Lexus, put in a 200hp plus hybrid power train with its own ludicrous mode and take out some cost from the luxury stuff.  Of course they will have to have a line of "sporty" CUVs to move enough units to pay for it all.  Bringing back a 300hp RAV4 would be good thing.

1) take V6 from Camry

2) install in whatever they are calling the BRZ now

3) silence "not enough power" crowd,  silence "toyota is the most vanilla thing to ever vanilla" crowd

4) ???

5) probably lose money, but might be good for the brand

ProDarwin said:

1) take V6 from Camry

2) install in whatever they are calling the BRZ now

3) silence "not enough power" crowd,  silence "toyota is the most vanilla thing to ever vanilla" crowd

4) ???

5) probably lose money, but might be good for the brand

The problem is really midrange tq.

For example, the new Miata makes as much torque as the BRZ, lower in the rev range with more area under the curve with nearly 500lbs less to move around.

Hence no one complaining about the power curve.

Kreb said:

Can someone explain to me the difference between oriented and orientated? They seem to mean the same, but the first one sounds like the product of a couple of extra years of college.  

"Orientated" is just an older, British formulation. Even in the U.K., use of "oriented" is more common these days.

dean1484 said:

I don't know if this is news or not but for the ROW it will be called "Gazoo".  Here in the US they are making TRD the actual brand name.

Click here for more info.

Love the premise, but the best that Toyota could come up with for their new brand is "Gazoo" and "Turd"?  What the heck.

Maybe get in with the cool crowd and make this performance sub-brand also all-electric?  

Torquota?

I, for one, am excited that they are pursuing this kind of thing at all.

Gazoo is who runs Toyota's WEC team, not  that most Toyota's customers would have any idea what that is.

z31maniac said:

The problem is really midrange tq.

I think the 3.5L V6 from the Camry would solve this problem.

ProDarwin said:

z31maniac said:

The problem is really midrange tq.

I think the 3.5L V6 from the Camry would solve this problem.

And raise the CoG and shift the weight bias even further forward. The Twins already have a horrific F/R bias.

very simple... they need more this.....  

oldeskewltoy said:

very simple... they need more this.....  

 

Except they already have an updated version of that called the 86.  Once upon a time nearly all Toyotas were appealing in their market sector.  These days, nearly none are,  (except for the 86) at least for the enthusiast.   

Early reviews say the 2018 Camry is much more entertaining to drive, hopefully that is true.  Maybe now they can make the Corolla, Yaris (or whatever their econobox is these days) and other offerings fun to drive too.  That would be a good start.  The Toyota=appliance mindset is strong with car guys, as we feel abandoned by Toyota.  It's going to take several fun / affordable offerings to change this opinion. 

Nearly every Mazda is engaging to drive.   If they want a piece of the enthusiast pie, they should follow their lead.  

mazdeuce said:

This is only relevant to enthusiasts if they make cars that are relevant to enthusiasts.  They could do all this, but unless they do, it doesn't really matter. 

And even if they do, it still won't matter as long as they keep making cars you can't stand to look at.

Kreb said:

Can someone explain to me the difference between oriented and orientated?  

The first one is a real word.  The second one isn't.

As a current LS430 owner and former MR2 (AW11) owner, I would really like to see this, particularly if they make a real effort and don't just gussy up existing models.   

I've read about a "Gazoo Racing" Yaris they have been toting around to car shows. 

It has around 200hp and a supercharger. That's not a bad place to start. Will the US ever get it though? 
 

I've also read that the new Camry is "as fun to drive as the Mazda 6" and that the "V6 model should run 13's in the 1/4". What sorcery is this? 

I second stuffing the new Camry's V6 into the Toyobaru. That would be a blast. Call it the Celica GT86 or something. 

Nah, I'd rather see them slap a proper set of rods in the FA20 and a nice TVS 1320 blower on it. 

Edelbrock already has one that they backup the factory 3/36k warranty on (if installed by a pro). Edelbrock does the same on the new Miata. 

On the BRZ that kit fills in all the tq dips and brings rwhp up to around 250 from 160 stock.

That will do just fine. :)