About the only thing car culture can agree on when it comes to the A91 Toyota Supra is that it’s a polarizing car.
Built on a chassis shared with the BMW Z4, the Supra is more of a badge-engineered BMW than a true Toyota, but its abilities on both the road and especially the track are diffi…
Supra 6MT will having a starting MSRP of $52,500
Despite the grammatical error this number sounds pretty amazing for a sports car in 2022. Are Toyota dealers selling these at MSRP or tacking on and extra thirty thousand because they can?
OHSCrifle said:Supra 6MT will having a starting MSRP of $52,500
Despite the grammatical error this number sounds pretty amazing for a sports car in 2022. Are Toyota dealers selling these at MSRP or tacking on and extra thirty thousand because they can?
Holy cow... I spent less on my bloated PP GT which I bought at sticker.
These Supras had a pretty surprise showing at the 2022 One Lap of America with 4 competing. The highest finishing was 7th (with the others finishing 12, 13, 50th out of 84) but they left a lot of cars in their wake most notably Caymans and many 911s, including multiple GT2s and GT3s
the lack of a manual was still a sore spot with prospective customers as well as people who just liked to complain.
Never felt so seen in my entire life...
I've complained a lot of the Supra not being offered with a 6MT.
I'd still get it with the AT.
Unless we've traveled back in time twenty years, I'm pretty sure the platform is shared with the bmw z4, not the z3.
OHSCrifle said:Supra 6MT will having a starting MSRP of $52,500
Despite the grammatical error this number sounds pretty amazing for a sports car in 2022. Are Toyota dealers selling these at MSRP or tacking on and extra thirty thousand because they can?
If you got arrested for being a good craftsman, would there be enough evidence to convict you?
Around me if a used one pops up it's still $65k. Are people having success ordering them from the dealer for MSRP?
If I had new Supra money this would make me much more likely to buy one...but I'd still be cross-shopping it with a used C7.
In reply to hunter47 :
and you wonder why we don't get manuals. If you don't buy it, they won't build it.
I own the last BMW sports model that they refused to make with anything but a manual trans - the Z4M. Maybe they decided that any potential 'shiftless' customers didn't deserve one?
I like the ZF 6 speed, though I'm not sure that it is the same thing being used in the Toyota - Aisin make excellent gearboxes and that may well be what is being used. It will be interesting to see how well they sell.
I applaud the availability of manual even of it is only a run of 500 cars. I'm not sure that I could ever bring myself to buy an automatic sports car even though they can be demonstrably a bit quicker than the manual version. The only automatics I have ever owned were either to cars or in my big Jensens which are GT cars rather than sports models.
Now the only thing to complain about is the BMW engine.
Anyone in the earlier threads who stated they'd buy one if it came manual going to now buy a manual version?
In reply to wspohn :
I read an article that said it is a ZF box, just a different spec than supplied for BMW. Let me see if I can find it..
yupididit said:Now the only thing to complain about is the BMW engine.
Anyone in the earlier threads who stated they'd buy one if it came manual going to now buy a manual version?
While I never said I'd buy one, with a third pedal they're now on the list of potentials.
The rest of this isn't really aimed at you, but you got me thinking. For fun I looked up what other high-powered manual RWD coupes you could get new for $60K. I'm not going to consider the used market for this exercise because that's rabbit hole in which one will never return.
It's basically just the American trio and it's cousin the Z4. That'll change with the Nissan Z pretty soon, but performance comparisons haven't exactly been kind to it. Hopefully the aftermarket will solve it's wayward suspension soon enough. Maybe one could argue for a base Cayman, but they have 100hp-ish less and start at $63,400 before Porsche's infamous options. I'm probably forgetting about something, so feel free to swoop in and correct me.
I dunno. If you're not into the rather large American V8 options there really isn't much else right now that ticks all the boxes. That said, I'd love to see the new manual Supra track tested against a 1SS 1LE ($48K), Mach 1 ($56K), and maybe a R/T Scat Pack Widebody ($53K).
But for all the similarity, the six-speed Supra’s dossier contains one different stat of note: a 71 mph second gear. And that’s with the stock rear 275/35R19 Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Throw a little more tire diameter on there, and you might never have to deal with the rev limiter on an autocross course again. The automatic-equipped Supra maxed out at only 54 mph on the stock tires.Toyota says the zero-to-60 sprint actually takes a few tenths longer with the manual box
Why worry about the 2nd gear speed in the auto? It'll just shift to third when you hit 54.....What speed does 3rd gear get you to?
And, as noted, the auto will accelerate faster than the manual.
So why is the manual particularly good for autox? It may have pretty good ratios, but it will still lose to the auto box...
In reply to gencollon :
I had a different BMW with a similar short 2nd gear and it was incredibly annoying. Lots of autocross courses spend time going between 45 and 60 mph. Instead of focusing on car placement, I was focusing on whether I needed to shift. It doesn't help that modern bmws have so much sound deadening that it is hard to determine engine rpms by sound with a helmet on.
I said that the lack of a manual meant this car was a non-starter for me, as a Supra owner. The BMW bits are currently the deal breaker. If I see these cars hitting 100k, 200k with only minor issues and still holding up cosmetically as well as the last Supra did, I'll consider them having gone through trial by fire and welcome them into the family, perhaps formally.
For the money though, I'd rather have a GR Corolla and $20k for tires and whatever mods might tickle my fancy. Bet it's just as quick or quicker at autocross, provided the gearing is suitable.
Can confirm, having a second gear that runs to 70+ and a flexible powerband makes for a capable Supra. My 87 is weirdly enough similar in performance to the Mk5, apart from the newer car having the benefit of variable valve timing.
Finally! Now this makes my to drive list.
I don't know that Toyota does this, but BMW regulated their cars to a top speed of 155 mph. Some of the Z4M owners just used 5th gear instead of 6th and managed around 170 but were hitting the 7900 red line when they did.
wspohn said:I don't know that Toyota does this, but BMW regulated their cars to a top speed of 155 mph. Some of the Z4M owners just used 5th gear instead of 6th and managed around 170 but were hitting the 7900 red line when they did.
I don't think that's top 100 in the vast majority of any new car buyers main concerns though.
In reply to crankwalk (Forum Supporter) :
...you'd be surprised by a relatively large contingent of Supra owners then. I've only taken mine to about 150, but there are plenty others out there who have seen 200+ on runways around the country. Texas 2k used to be a Supra centric event. =)
In reply to ojannen :
I'm sure that a 2nd gear that's too short, and a 3rd gear that's too tall to work on an autoX course is slow and frustrating.... I doubt that the auto gearbox in the Supra has that problem.
1st goes to ~ 32, 2nd goes to ~48, 3rd goes to ~77.... and it shifts between the gears almost instantly and without disrupting the chassis. The manual car will be fun and involving, but it won't beat the same car with the auto box where a stopwatch is involved- especially when it loses .2 seconds accelerating out of the gate. And if there ever is a tight hairpin on the course, the auto car will give you 2nd gear again, and make up more time over the manual box.
https://youtu.be/KHG054-Aw9U?t=15
te72 said:In reply to crankwalk (Forum Supporter) :
...you'd be surprised by a relatively large contingent of Supra owners then. I've only taken mine to about 150, but there are plenty others out there who have seen 200+ on runways around the country. Texas 2k used to be a Supra centric event. =)
I'm a former Supra owner and literally none of the fast one I know care one bit about the stock ECUs limitations because any of them that will actually need to worry about getting close to those speeds have standalones and a big single.
This car's looks keep growing on me. That the latest version supposedly dynos at over 400hp to the wheels isn't unappealing either.
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) said:te72 said:In reply to crankwalk (Forum Supporter) :
...you'd be surprised by a relatively large contingent of Supra owners then. I've only taken mine to about 150, but there are plenty others out there who have seen 200+ on runways around the country. Texas 2k used to be a Supra centric event. =)
I'm a former Supra owner and literally none of the fast one I know care one bit about the stock ECUs limitations because any of them that will actually need to worry about getting close to those speeds have standalones and a big single.
You make a fair point. The cars could reach some impressive speeds on the stock setups, but you're right that the truly fast ones are modified well beyond what Toyota put into them.
Former owner huh? How do you get away from them? Ours just seem to keep multiplying... =P
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