Track Car with a License Plate for 10k?

David S. Wallens said:

How about a non-M E46 BMW?

^This.  I would look for an E46 330i and refer to the Spec E46 article that was recently posted.  Plan on bushings, a cooling system refresh, and the rear subframe reinforcement.  I would have said scruffy E36 M3, however they're getting old and the prices are on the move and they may not be realistic to find for $10k any longer.  The interiors are deep into the biodegrading process by now for street use. 

Either option represents (to me anyway,) the lowest amount of HP that you can field at an HPDE these days without constantly driving in your mirrors.

I have under 5k in my current streetable track 944. That includes the car itself, springs, struts, bushings, clutch, flywheel, seat, harness, rollbar, tires, header, brakes. Its a good platform, bigger than a miata (can hold more track gear in the hatch and more comfortable on the way to the track), spares are plentiful, can pull setup info from the 944spec people,  strong user base for repairs/modifications. Ive also had a few MK3 VWs with similar (and more) levels of setup that worked equally well. Honestly, I think if you just pick any popular spec chassis thats cheap, throw a seat, rollbar, brakes, and suspension at it, and you are good to go. 

On the level of fun per $ the 944 is 10/10, would build again. 

On the topic of BMWs, the E82 1-series is another, albeit somewhat rarer option.  Smaller than a 3-series, but shares a lot of the same suspension bits as E9X's, including the M3.  Plus the 128i has one of the last NA inline 6s from BMW.

David S. Wallens said:

Olemiss540 said:

Bmw e36 or bmw e46. Punch your ticket. 

Easy to fix, all sorts of repairs and upgrades well documented online, and a hoot at the limit. Also like the NC here but personally prefer the hard top and speed the Germans being to the mix. 

And I'd add non-M E9x BMW to that list, too. Fairly easy on consumables, the right size, easy to drive, terrific parts support, etc. 

Or if you can find one a manual 128i would be PERFECT IMO.

Tyler H said:

David S. Wallens said:

How about a non-M E46 BMW?

^This.  I would look for an E46 330i and refer to the Spec E46 article that was recently posted.  Plan on bushings, a cooling system refresh, and the rear subframe reinforcement.  I would have said scruffy E36 M3, however they're getting old and the prices are on the move and they may not be realistic to find for $10k any longer.  The interiors are deep into the biodegrading process by now for street use. 

Either option represents (to me anyway,) the lowest amount of HP that you can field at an HPDE these days without constantly driving in your mirrors.

I much prefer the driving dynamics of the e36 325i over 330i. Also weight. Also EASILY swapped for an m3 motor.. Also cheap and easy to add m3 bits. 

The interior of the e46 is light years better but if it's a track car who cares.

Olemiss540 said:

Tyler H said:

David S. Wallens said:

How about a non-M E46 BMW?

^This.  I would look for an E46 330i and refer to the Spec E46 article that was recently posted.  Plan on bushings, a cooling system refresh, and the rear subframe reinforcement.  I would have said scruffy E36 M3, however they're getting old and the prices are on the move and they may not be realistic to find for $10k any longer.  The interiors are deep into the biodegrading process by now for street use. 

Either option represents (to me anyway,) the lowest amount of HP that you can field at an HPDE these days without constantly driving in your mirrors.

I much prefer the driving dynamics of the e36 325i over 330i. Also weight. Also EASILY swapped for an m3 motor.. Also cheap and easy to add m3 bits. 

The interior of the e46 is light years better but if it's a track car who cares.

Yep at this point there has been enough development that the E30/E36/E46 are essentially LEGO's when it comes to updating older cars with newer drivetrains/suspension/brakes. 

Nitroracer (Forum Supporter) said:

If you had $10k in today's market to buy or build a track focused car how would you go about it?

 

I have the itch to get back on a road course and I'm currently shopping around for the best way to spend my money.  As we all know, it doesn't seem to go as far as it used to, and the things I love from the 90s are all more than 20 years old now.  My last track car was a 94' Integra GS-R and I loved it, but unfortunately it is no longer in my driveway.  Having the highest horsepower doesn't matter to me, 200ish seems to be plenty for what I like to do, but a touch more torque than the old Honda might be nice for climbing hills.  I'm open to front or rear wheel drive, not so much interested in all wheel drive.  If I can find a car someone else has already built that is a option near the top end, with some money left over to refresh maintenance items.  Lower down on the buy in allows me to have a car to build over a few months which I enjoy as well.  I would like to be able to drive it on the street and not trailer it everywhere, or take it to work on a nice day.  It certainly doesn't have to be a comfortable daily.  I have a 1.6L Miata in the garage right now, but it would need some work to be a track toy, and frankly I think it might be a bit too slow for what I'm up against in 2022.  I would rather see it go to someone else as a fun street car.

Give me your ideas!

I had a 1.6 Miata track car, definitely slow, but my home track Hallett isn't exactly Road America or anything. 

If the tub is in good condition. I'd say do all the safety prep you need to make sure the brakes are in good order, throw something the Flyin' Miata VMaxx track pack and some tires and go enjoy for a season or two as you save up to put a stronger engine it. 

That was my original plan. I went to the point of Wilwood's at all 4 corners, new bushings and new bolts/nuts for EVERY piece in the suspension, 949 Racing XIDAs after having FM VMaxx on the car............but before I got to the point of the engine swap, I got tired of how much time I was spending in the garage. 

David S. Wallens said:

Olemiss540 said:

Bmw e36 or bmw e46. Punch your ticket. 

Easy to fix, all sorts of repairs and upgrades well documented online, and a hoot at the limit. Also like the NC here but personally prefer the hard top and speed the Germans being to the mix. 

And I'd add non-M E9x BMW to that list, too. Fairly easy on consumables, the right size, easy to drive, terrific parts support, etc. 

I'd second this. Buddy has a 330i (I think?) and after replacing the plastic impeller water pump and the oil filter gasket (the one that mates the housing to the block, not the standard one you replace every oil change) he said it's been very reliable and terrific to drive. I was considering getting one to replace my WRX but he said I'd probably be underwhelmed and that it would be more of lateral change. 

z31maniac said:

Olemiss540 said:

Tyler H said:

David S. Wallens said:

How about a non-M E46 BMW?

^This.  I would look for an E46 330i and refer to the Spec E46 article that was recently posted.  Plan on bushings, a cooling system refresh, and the rear subframe reinforcement.  I would have said scruffy E36 M3, however they're getting old and the prices are on the move and they may not be realistic to find for $10k any longer.  The interiors are deep into the biodegrading process by now for street use. 

Either option represents (to me anyway,) the lowest amount of HP that you can field at an HPDE these days without constantly driving in your mirrors.

I much prefer the driving dynamics of the e36 325i over 330i. Also weight. Also EASILY swapped for an m3 motor.. Also cheap and easy to add m3 bits. 

The interior of the e46 is light years better but if it's a track car who cares.

Yep at this point there has been enough development that the E30/E36/E46 are essentially LEGO's when it comes to updating older cars with newer drivetrains/suspension/brakes. 

 

LEGOS are made with much higher-quality plastic, though.

In reply to Tyler H :

Hahaha!

I read the OP and he has the answer already. Typical GRM thread  

Had an e46 325is and it was a nice car but if I was trying to build a track weapon I wouldn't start there.

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

I read the OP and he has the answer already. Typical GRM thread  

Had an e46 325is and it was a nice car but if I was trying to build a track weapon I wouldn't start there.

??? Did I miss something?

Also, I have never heard of an e46 325is. 

Also, consider an NC with a 2.5L swap. They're significantly faster than a spec NA/NB, can fit larger rubber and are at the bottom of the depreciation curve

Olemiss540 said:

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

I read the OP and he has the answer already. Typical GRM thread  

Had an e46 325is and it was a nice car but if I was trying to build a track weapon I wouldn't start there.

??? Did I miss something?

Also, I have never heard of an e46 325is. 

Smaller displacement M54. 

I'll leave this here. My $7,000 stock 986 has tires and brake pads and has been through over a dozen track days. 

In Reply to z31maniac:

I believe he's referring to the "s" that wasn't used on e46s(that I know of).

buzzboy said:

In Reply to z31maniac:

I believe he's referring to the "s" that wasn't used on e46s(that I know of).

Oh gotcha. Derp on my part. 

I started with an $1900 1990 Miata with 300,000 miles and hail damage.  I think if you want a real track car (roll bar, seats, harness, suspension), that $10k for something like an E36 just isn't realistic.  I'm probably jaded, but as someone that's currently swapping the blown engine in his E30 rally car, I have a hard time believing any BMW is an affordable or reliable track toy).  Here's my cost breakdown to turn a crap Miata into a track toy.  Note that nothing actually added any power here:

$1900 car
$1350 suspension (FM track pack)
$850 on seats
$750 on wheels (I only have one set suitable for track)
$420 on harnesses
$380 on tires 
$300 getting harness bar and diagonal welded to roll bar
$280 on brake pads
$250 on steering wheel mount/quick release
$230 on steering wheel
$200 mounting seats
$200 wheel alignment, mounting tires.
$200 on seat back braces
$150 on windshield
$65 on lug nuts.

That's $7525 and values many weekends of my labor as free.  The car already came with a roll bar (but didn't have a diagonal, so I added that), and also came with a Mishimoto radiator, and an all-aluminum radiator is pretty much required preventative maintenance for a track toy.

It's done enough track days that I've gone through a set of 200TW tires and a couple sets of NT01s.  It's a track car with a license plate.  I drive it to the track on track tires, Carbotech XP8 brake pads.  Sure, it's a brutal, loud, hot/cold ride and NT01s are scary in the rain, but I love not having to deal with a trailer for track days. It's true that I can't carry anything in it, but I don't need to! I don't even take any tools beyond a tire gauge.  I do sit on a piece of foam on the street which makes my 3 hour drive to the track more survivable.

Things that have broken on my 300,000 mile track Miata:

• Wheel bearings.  I hilariously decided to see how long likely-300,000 mile wheel bearings would last on track.  The answer: they were making terrible noises after one track day.  Replaced before the next.
• Heater core started dripping on my feet.  It's a track car, so I just bypassed the heater core and went on about my day.
• It was down on power and missed a bit on throttle tip-in at high RPM.  Tried to check the timing, but the harmonic damper was toast and the timing marker just randomly rotated around the crank pulley.  That was like $150 to replace.  Turns out the timing was set around 0 degrees advance.  Ran great after I fixed that.
• Rubber air intake cracked.  $100 for a new one, though it did run just fine with some RTV over the crack.

To be fair, it's clearly not the original engine as it's long nose crank 1.6, and the car would have come with short nose.  No idea how many miles on the engine.  When it blows, 1.6l replacements are cheap.

It's not a pretty car with faded/mismatched paint, clear coat peeling in places (original paint had no clear coat, so it's been repainted), but it gets the job done.  While I spend more time driving my actual racecar on the track, I love having a track toy that's cheap, easy to maintain, and can drive to the track.  Also, because it was cheap, I'm not going to be too upset when one of the friends I let drive it in driver's school ends up putting it into a wall.  Long term, I would really like to turn it into an endurance race car...

Berck said:

an all-aluminum radiator is pretty much required preventative maintenance for any vehicle you'd rather not experience an eventual but certain radiator blowout with

FTFY

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned a ratty 350Z yet. Seems like it would fit the bill. 

Nitroracer (Forum Supporter) said:

I have a 1.6L Miata in the garage right now, but it would need some work to be a track toy, and frankly I think it might be a bit too slow for what I'm up against in 2022. 

I'm not entirely what you mean by "up against" if you're just talking about a track car.  You're up against you unless you're racing:)  That said, the frustration of driving a Miata on the track with cars that have big engines and can't/won't corner is real. Especially if your track days don't allow passing in corners.  Usually a friendly plea after a session to let you pass and see if they can catch you by the end of the *next* straight works.

If your street Miata is nice, I agree: don't hack it up for the track.  But there are lots of not-so-nice Miatas out there:)

Berck said:

Nitroracer (Forum Supporter) said:

I have a 1.6L Miata in the garage right now, but it would need some work to be a track toy, and frankly I think it might be a bit too slow for what I'm up against in 2022. 

I'm not entirely what you mean by "up against" if you're just talking about a track car.  You're up against you unless you're racing:)  That said, the frustration of driving a Miata on the track with cars that have big engines and can't/won't corner is real. Especially if your track days don't allow passing in corners.  Usually a friendly plea after a session to let you pass and see if they can catch you by the end of the *next* straight works.

If your street Miata is nice, I agree: don't hack it up for the track.  But there are lots of not-so-nice Miatas out there:)

If they wouldn't give me a point-by, I would roll through the pits signaling to the crew/workers by "pulling my hands apart" like you're stretching dough or something, that I was just trying to make some space. This was something talked about every morning in the meetings as what to do if you were getting frustrated to get some breathing room. 

Better than being frustrated your entire session.

Engine is $400-$600 with 100-200k miles.  Gearbox is $100-$200, but they just don't break at stock power.  I don't worry about a naturally aspirated Miata failing and leaving me stranded, even on the track. In 500,000+ miles of driving Miatas, I've only needed to summon help once.  (That one was a failed cooling hose that I didn't preemptively replace because I was new to 1.8l Miatas and didn't know the hose existed.  It failed because some "mechanic" gouged the valve cover seal causing an oil drip on the hose where it failed.  Hard to blame the car.) I just listed everything I've had break on the car in the last 3.5 years of tracking it, and this is with a 32-year old car with 300,000 miles.  None of those broken things left me stranded.  I worry more about crashing it and not being able to drive it back.