Traction in modern day vehicles

Now, I've driven a lot of different cars for being a relative youngin' at 26, and owned over 30 myself personally.

The GMC needs a front wheel bearing, and I needed a car for a week. Fast forward to me renting a Hyundai Sonata (they upgraded me, new cars all seem to get the same good mpg anyways so why not)?

Its winter time, its -30*C, and there is plenty of snow/ice on the ground. Holy crap, even with all seasons, this thing has incredible grip even when trying to accelerate on ice. Yes, sometimes the traction control comes on, but its not the traction control that is causing the car to grip... same with the ABS. Even with the crappy factory all seasons, the car just MOVES and brakes extremely well!

Engineers are getting this suspension geometry/suspension tuning thing down pat nowadays. Its just phenomenal how much traction there is.

/theendofmindbeingblown

No kidding - I had the opportunity to play designated driver over the holiday. With someone else's Audi A5 in the rain. All I can say is /mindblown to on-ramps at speeds approaching dangerously irresponsible.

How new? Is there a cutoff or is it a very gradual thing?

I wish I could say my recent experience with a Camry Hybrid service loaner was the same. That thing was terrible when it was barely even damp. I can't begin to imagine the level of suck that would exude from it in snow.

A lot of it is the tires. Those too have come a long ways forward.

Even just the mechanical grip that many new cars have is crazy, though. I feel like the biggest step was probably in the '90s, based on what I've driven. Especially for American stuff.

I agree a lot of it is modern tires. Even the rock-hard, 3/4 worn all-seasons on my Grand Caravan still provide a surprising amount of grip. I'm starting to feel a bit of hydro-planing when it's really wet, but not in an unexpected or uncontrollable manner.

it's the tyres and the new generation of ABS and Traction Control is not as obtrusive as it once was.

There are still some shining examples of what bad is like though.

Yesterday I had my Malibu out, the roads were a bit damp because they had laid brine out for todays snow. Guy in front of me brakes hard for no reason so I lay on the binders. In either my old BMW, Volvo, or even the Disco, it would have come to a rapid halt with little to tell me that the ABS had even activated. The 2004 Malibu though, damn near shook itself to pieces as the ABS did it's best to remind me of what the early systems were like

Since most cars today are FWD, having 60+% of the weight on the drive wheels helps. I found that out with my 65 SAAB on Pirelli Cinturatos. Been driving FWD ever since.

In reply to mad_machine:

I kinda liked the old GM rattle box ABS, it encouraged me to use my brakes correctly.

The tires are still the #1 answer for any road condition. Could not wait for a good snowfall when I got my 03 WRX. After I slid through the stop sign getting out of the development with the ABS chattering I turned around and put it back in the garage. Been using winter tires on all four corners for over 20 years so I should have known better.

In reply to iceracer:

Even better in that regard, is rear engine.

It's mostly the tires. Partly the traction/stability control. My Honda Fit came with LRR tires and even brand new they were barely what I would call adequate for winter driving. It has snow tires this winter. Huge improvement. Still doesn't handle as well as my EK civic. Tho I could likely fix that somewhat with a stiff rear sway on the fit.

Also new cars have been getting wider tires as of late too.....I remember when it was shocking to see an appliance car with 205's on it, now 235-245 seems almost normal.

In reply to yamaha:

Although, wider tires are actually counter-productive in low grip conditions.

My Mini Cooper S with snows last year was better then my wifes old Audi with all seasons.

Tohis moning was pretty messy out, lots of ice and fresh snow. My Mustang GT with used snow tires was without any drama. There was one time that the traction control cut all power while making a turn from a stop, the rest of the ride in I never noticed it.

Driven5 wrote: In reply to iceracer: Even better in that regard, is rear engine.

Drove a Beetle all winter on a 35 mile commute. No thanks.

Heater and defrost worked fine.

foxtrapper wrote: A lot of it is the tires. Those too have come a long ways forward.

For anybody that suggests its tires, the car is equipped with kumho solus tires. An everyday, run of the mill tire that OEM's equip. Its nothing special, and it certainly isn't meant for -30*C snow and ice weather.

Sure, tires have advanced, but I've put new (and well rated) tires on old cars, and they still don't have the same amount of grip. And it isn't traction control/ABS, maybe to some people it is hard to tell if they engage, but I've never been in a vehicle where I can't.

Anywho... I'm still of the opinion its suspension design. I've driven fwd vehicles all my life including plenty of mid-size and full-size ones, and none have had this sort of forward traction.

It could be a good chassis. A good chassis can handle well and put the power down.

But the internet tells me that modern cars are heavy and therefore subjectively worse than old cars!

I have two vehicles, last year my 13 Kia Forte SX Coupe was my snow car and this year I am using my 2006 Mazda5, both are manuals and have ABS, but the Mazda does not have traction control. I put the same set of snows that are low mileage and were purchased last year. Even though the Forte from the looks and weight would presume it would be worse in the winter, but I actually think it is easier to drive, I think the traction control really makes a difference.

MCarp22 wrote: But the internet tells me that modern cars are heavy and therefore subjectively worse than old cars!

the "heavy" might be the biggest factor in the better traction..

next weekend i'm going to be putting a set of snows on my 86 Camaro for some frozen lake hooning action... i'll report back what traction is like with 215/75/15 snows and a 400ish hp 355 compared to the last time i drove it in the snow a few winters ago when it had 245/50/16 summer tires and a 130hp v6...

Yes, flip through motortrend and you'll see that a new Honda Accord pulls 0.88g on all-season tires! That's what the 2006 BMW M5 did on max-performance summer tires!

It finally got a bit chilly down here in Texas. The stock Michelins on the V wagon are astonishingly bad, which even the owners manual said they would be, but, wow. Now I really want to find a wet 33 degree parking lot to turn the traction control completely off.

Huh...I just started a thread stating that FWD blows goats in the snow.