ddavidv said:Not a complaint; just an observation: that car would not have been legal when the event started oh-so-many years ago. I believe we had to stick with an actual car body (no tube frame) back then. Things have come a long way, but that certainly offers more latitude and creativity.
Im pretty sure the car has a miata floor and frame rails.
ddavidv said:Not a complaint; just an observation: that car would not have been legal when the event started oh-so-many years ago. I believe we had to stick with an actual car body (no tube frame) back then. Things have come a long way, but that certainly offers more latitude and creativity.
This is true, but that was a long time ago. The rules have allowed tube frames (with limits) for years.
This was my first time at the challenge and I have to say it did not disappoint! I have been interested in going since I picked up my first issue in 2009 or so. Loved all the the different builds and approaches! Wish I would have went years ago!
Congrats! Definitely a cool car
SV reX said:In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :
I think an SFI chassis sticker is only required for cars that run 9.99 or faster.
Aspiration changes and firewall modifications require a cage for 11.00 or better per NHRA last time this was a discussion involving the challenge, I haven't read the 2025 rule book but NHRA hasn't been known for aggressively relaxing safety requirements.
In reply to RacetruckRon :
The Bug ran a 13.3. That's a long distance from any NHRA threshold I am familiar with.
SV reX said:In reply to RacetruckRon :
The Bug ran a 13.3. That's a long distance from any NHRA threshold I am familiar with.
If it was rotary powered, it'd need a SFI rated scattershield, and if it were a convertible it would need.... something happens at 13.49. And anything quicker than 13.49 requires a helmet period, by recollection.
Neither apply to this car, but it's interesting how soon the NHRA wants things for specific use cases.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Ok... I was specifically referring to any NHRA threshold that would require SFI chassis certification for this car.
I just reread the rules and it wouldn't get scrutiny because its so slow. Not legal under 11.50 as there is no factory frame to weld to which would kick it to sfi. Carry on.
ddavidv said:Not a complaint; just an observation: that car would not have been legal when the event started oh-so-many years ago. I believe we had to stick with an actual car body (no tube frame) back then. Things have come a long way, but that certainly offers more latitude and creativity.
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but is this entry not just a Beatle body draped over one of these stripped down Miata chassis?
My assumption was that the "Tube frame" referred to door bars and roll-hoops.
In reply to NOHOME :
I don't have any good pics to compare, but i believe it was more stripped down than that.
Iirc the Bettle/Miata used the front and rear subframes from the Miata, tied together with a custom tube chassis. Beetle rockers/frame rails were welded onto the tube chassis to align/connect the body properly and allow the stock beetle pans to be used.
This car was built over 10 years ago and has been autocrossed for many years. The original body was green but he changed to the red as he was able to zero out the cost of the shell with parts included with the purchase. This is a very sorted car.
His instagram is Autocrossratrod. They drove 18 hours from T. And he was so excited to meet Dan as he was a huge fan of the 360 build.
I want to know more about the Cougar that ran in the 12s on narrow tires.
Thanks for his ig, there are some good frame pics, as well as the miata floors and firewall.
You know you've made it to the pointy end when people start to question the rules compliance of your ride.
Andy Hollis said:You know you've made it to the pointy end when people start to question the rules compliance of your ride.
Quote for truth.
I'm not a fan of hat cars, but they're dominant right now.
Congrats to the winners and all that competed!
In reply to OHSCrifle :
It was ROWDY! Awesome team of guys.
People (general not subtexting anyone) argue over stuff every year. I used to be one of them, and now that I can step back a bit now that we're on an every other/few years schedule for attendance I can say one thing. How absolutely silly all of us were/are. It's still an editorial exercise, with wiggle room for wow factor as long as you fall in budget(please don't cheat your spreadsheet it's not berkeleying cool and that's the one thing I will stick to hardcore).
That said, my observation is there are three types of people who show up. People who just want to play so they bring whatever, people who build $2000 challenge cars, and people who build racecars that happen to be limited by the budget. All 3 are valid routes to participation, and 2/3 of those ways are a way to be near the top if you do it right. I do not play in the middle group building challenge cars. I either show up with whatever for fun or I build a racecar that holds to the budget that can be used elsewhere. Any of the ways is a perfectly valid way to show up. What you take away from the event is up to you, but the bellyaching EVERY YEAR for a week afterward is tiring and frankly I'm embarrassed to have taken part in those bitch-and-moan sessions in the past. Come play next year, bring whatever you want, don't cheat, have a good time, and it'll all fall well within the spirit of the event.
I'd sure like to see some photos of the winning cars. Is that in the makes?
So since the hat cars are winning now, will anyone make a competitive DM or EM car and win?
(for those who can't remember, my kind of fixation are competitive cars that would also be competitive at the Solo Nationals in their respective class)
I remember the winning Caddy a number of years ago that dropped right into CP if they wanted to.
In reply to alfadriver :
It's tough to get an apples-to-apples comparison to previous years. Having said that, I don't think the drags have gotten significantly faster over the past decade or so.
That would suggest to me that people gravitate to hat cars because they are easier, but not necessarily faster.
If people were building competitive solo nat cars previously and winning the challenge, I think it's still possible.
In reply to alfadriver :
My thoughts are that the current hat cars (all Miata based this year I believe) are a way to get around having a line of Miatai at concours. You get a nice handling base but are limited by power if using the Miata engine. If the trend continues how will one hat car stand out from another? There's always trends at the Challenge that will come and go. You want to be the trendsetter not the one showing up late to the party.
OHSCrifle said:I want to know more about the Cougar that ran in the 12s on narrow tires.
Apparently those are Fox chassis, like a Fairmont. It just had a carbed SBF from what I could tell and was very well sorted.
In reply to maschinenbau :
302 with GT40 heads and a cam. It was healthy.
RE: hat car
To me, a "hat car" is a unibody merge. Two cars cut horizontally, using the floor pan and majority of the structure from the bottom car. The Volvo and Saab were hat cars. This Beetle was more of a custom rat rod that used Miata running gear. I am not sure it even had the full front subframe. The upper arms looked to be mounted lower than normal on the tube frame giving it a more aggressive camber curve than a normal Miata.
However you define that car, it was totally rad and deserving of the win.
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