In reply to z31maniac :
You'd hit 4th at Hallett, but barely. We were on the rev limiter for a solid three count (should have short shifted) in the V wagon. The SS should be faster almost everywhere.
In reply to z31maniac :
You'd hit 4th at Hallett, but barely. We were on the rev limiter for a solid three count (should have short shifted) in the V wagon. The SS should be faster almost everywhere.
SS 1LE..........you only live once If it means anything the 'maro made C&D's 2018 10 best list ......no stangs
z31maniac said:loosecannon said:Is the back seat a deal breaker? Go test drive a base Cayman. They are a joy to drive daily and are amazing for HPDE days.
It's not, my previous DD before the BRZ was an NC Miata.
Unfortunately, a clean 981 S with PDK and Sport Chrono+ is another $20-25k over a new SS 1LE.
Trust me, I'd love to have a Porsche in the garage.
The delta isn't that big. I drove a 981 Sport/Chrono+ with 6spd and it was $55k asking. So it's about 10k difference. That's new vs used though. For the record, it's the best car I've ever driven. Unbelievable.
What didn't you like about the ergos in the BRZ? I'm 6'2 and I found it wonderful (same with the 981). The only reason I'm shopping for an 86 instead of a 981/987 is bc I'm trying to save for a house...
How come you're set on having a dual-duty car? I tried to do that with my miata and pretty quickly realized that there's a lot of compromises to be had. So I said screw it, bought a bone-stock NA to daily and bolted in a proper race seat/harness/removable wheel in my track one. I can't imagine going back to a street seat. With track miatas as cheap as they are, the savings are pretty significant, especially on the 'I can afford to put this in a wall' front.
Oh, I love the ergo's of the BRZ, not the STi. That's part of what I liked about the Camaro so much, I fit really well in that car and love the Recaros. The Recaros in the STi had much less bolstering and even with the seat as low as it would go it still felt too hight.
For the 981, I want the PDK, period.
As for wanting a dual duty car? I've done the track only car, tow rig, etc. At my current house, being able to park a trailer here would mean tearing up the other side of the yard and building a large privacy gate, etc. Or parking it at a storage lot (PITA).
I also don't plan to dedicate the time and money to HPDE stuff like I did years ago when I was still married. So something I can throw a cooler, a folding chair, and a few tools and just go to the track is very ideal to me. I also only go into the office 2-3 days per week and it's 12 miles rountrip, so the car won't see many DD miles either. The BRZ is on the 2nd tank of gas since October (and there is still half a tank left) since we typically take my girlfriends car to go out, run errands, etc. Her '15 Fit has much more room.
loosecannon said:You don't need the S to have a great time and even if you do, you can still lease a 1 or 2 year old Cayman S and get the extended Porsche warranty. All the benefits of a new car without the cost.
I'll have to look into that, I didn't realize you could get a lease on used car.
Awesome, totally misread the big about the ergos. I now see that you viewed it as cramped, which hasn't been my experience but we are obviously different people :)
Given your current situation, the 981 really is calling your name. Man that would be sweet.
#badinfluence
Hmmmm, it looks like there are some 2014 Z51 package Vette's down at the same price as the Camaro 1LE.
I think the Cayman options suggested above are definitely worth considering, particularly since your last cars were a BRZ and NC.
If you're looking to save money you could do get a base Camaro SS and put on the GMPP handling/lowering kit, and slap on some better tires (or not worry about it) and be most of the way to a SS 1LE. Like the SS 1LE the full warranty is still in effect on the track.
I hear you about the new Camaro. I rented one last year when the new ATS chassis version was released and agree with all the observations. I drove one with the V6 and automatic. The car was insanely fast and I kept on punching it time and time again just to listen to it and be pinned into seat. Lots of fun and great handling. I got the pleasure of driving it for 500ish miles around Seattle and Vancouver, BC and I left thinking that I would like own one, except with a manual transmission. If I were buying it new, a manual V6 - 6 speed car would be quite fun, but if it were used, I would probably look for an SS just because......
Negatives- definitely had huge blind spots, I used the gas pedal in the same manner as you did to clear them. The car basically could outrun 90% of the cars on the road at any speed. 2nd, the limited access to the trunk, I had a suitcase and trade show bag. It would not fit in the small space to get into the trunk so I ended up having to bring the seats forward and shove it into the back seat area. A hatchback would be much more practical for a car like this.
Snrub said:I think the Cayman options suggested above are definitely worth considering, particularly since your last cars were a BRZ and NC.
If you're looking to save money you could do get a base Camaro SS and put on the GMPP handling/lowering kit, and slap on some better tires (or not worry about it) and be most of the way to a SS 1LE. Like the SS 1LE the full warranty is still in effect on the track.
I don't think that really makes much sense.
The 1LE package is $7k and you get a mass of stuff. Wider wheels and tires, Mag shocks, 6 pot Brembo's up front with 2 piece discs, 4 pot Brembo's out back, a splitter and spoiler, the electronic diff, Recaro seats.
It's really a bargain for what you get.
Although todays cars make it seem silly in comparison, I had a similar experience 10 years ago comparing the then-new 4.6L S197 Mustang to the MINI Cooper S. The Cooper S was quick but just in-bounds enough that I was really driving it at 10/10ths on the test drive. It felt really friendly and capable. The Mustang felt like it had enough power that it might kill me if I did something stupid.
I bought the Mustang and trained up to it. Today it's barely faster than the current crop of minivans.
Buy the Camaro.
So after sleeping on it a few more days, this is where I'm stuck at.
Camaro - Obviously it's insanely quick, I think it looks killer with the 1LE package, it's built for track days, etc. BUT, it is REALLY difficult to see out of, backseat is just as small/useless as the BRZ, and the trunk and the opening are incredibly small.
MSRP with the Performance Data Recorder is nearly $47k.
STi - It's still decently quick, I do like the styling (torn on the boy racer wing), fantastic brake setup and the suspension isn't bad from the factory for track work. It has much more room with the back seat and trunk, and it doesn't feel like you're inside a submarine, visibility is much better.
BUT, there are concerns about the EJ being reliable, so it would likely need some extra work to really be reliable.
MSRP - $42k
My heart wants the Camaro, my brain wants the STi. I'll only be doing a few trackdays per year, so the STi will be much more useable in everyway when not at the track, but still no slouch there either.
Are you dead set on one of these 2 and buying new? It seems like they both come with pretty significant compromises for an everyday car. You can't see out of the Camaro or use the trunk. And you're already questioning the reliability of the engine in the STI which would make me uncomfortable using it on track and hoping that it would stay intact enough to drive me to work the next day.
If you think $40-50k buys a lot of new car, take a look at the used market. 911 turbos, Caymans, ZO6s, M cars, etc. Maybe something like a used ATS-V sedan could get you the Camaro chassis and performance with a more useable backseat and better visibility? This one is a coupe, but seems like a nice deal for a car that's a year old, still has a bunch of warranty left and probably cost $70k new.
I wouldn't say dead set, but definitely the two I'm most interested in. The STi doesn't really have any downsides as a daily driver. And the engine stuff I think is overblown, much the Porsche IMS stuff, so it just hangs in my head. Part of the reason I'd prefer new, or very slightly used, is all the modern stuff I wouldn't have to change, nice stereo/bluetooth/heated seats/etc.
Those are all solid choices as well, I like the Caymans, but the ones I like (981 S w/PDK) are significantly more expensive. C6 Z06 has the valve issues.....and I'm not sure I could afford to properly maintain 911 Turbo or M car the way I would want to. I over-maintain everything I've ever owned.
The ATS-V is interesting, that's some pretty serious depreciation. Are they available with a manual?
The ATS-V is offered with a manual trans. Autotrader currently shows 4 manual coupes and 4 manual sedans under $50k.
Maybe I'll see if I can find a local one to drive. But to be honest, the exterior and interior don't really do anything for me.
If I were in that price range shopping, I don't think either of those cars would be on my list. Although I certainly appreciate the 1LE for its performance. Like you, I don't like the gun bunker like interior arrangement.
For that kinda money the BMW M2 would be at the top of my list if I wanted something new and 4 person carry capacity. Otherwise a 996 Turbo would be my next choice, followed by a Cayman S/R, 997.2, etc.
The 996 Turbo also has the advantage of not depreciating anymore and potentially could be sold for more than you paid for it in 5 years...
The Subaru EJ motor has some serious faults to it. I wouldn't track it or modify it at all. Even with that, be prepared for a huge fight with Subaru for warranty coverage if something happens to it.
A quick nationwide search only shows 2 M2s under the $50k mark (and 1 is with a rebuilt title) and only 1 within 450 miles of me. And new they are just under $60k with DCT and the Executive package. The M2 really is my first choice, I'm just not sure I can swing that if I want to go ahead and purchase something in the next month or two.
The Cayman S, same issues as the M2, I'd want the 981 S w/PDK, and those are all still $60k+........that's just pushing the budget too far, honestly.
996 Turbo is an interesting thought. The idea of maintenance on a 14-19 year old Turbo Porsche is sounds like a recipe for an empty savings account?
Of course, the cheapest thing to do would be put an oil cooler and pads/fluids and sticky tires on the BRZ and use it. But I'm really in the mood for a different car.
In reply to z31maniac :
I hope that one day, I can be "in the mood" for a $50k toy car. Of course by then, inflation will have ravaged the value of a dollar, robots will rule and $50k will only buy me a BiTurbo from a back-alley dealer. Sad!
STM317 said:In reply to z31maniac :
I hope that one day, I can be "in the mood" for a $50k toy car. Of course by then, inflation will have ravaged the value of a dollar, robots will rule and $50k will only buy me a BiTurbo from a back-alley dealer. Sad!
I hear ya. It's also taken me a decade in my profession, moving cities, changing jobs, and industries quite a few times as well.
Also, not having children is a big help on the time/money front. Plus I turn 36 in a few months, it's a little late to be starting that journey (even if I wanted to).
I'm seeing CPO 981 Cayman S for low to mid 40's. Its a common search for me, I usually look for cars with under 50k miles. They don't last long on lots though. Cayman's and Boxers are known to be very reliable cars.
One I've been eyeing
CPO 2014 Cayman S 38k miles PDK
I was thinking about this while driving around this morning. You have compelling arguments for both cars. My thoughts go back to a friend who worked with my wife when the new IRS Mustang came out. At the time you couldn't pick up an automotive magazine without reading some variation of "is the new Mustang as good an the M3?". The answer at the time was that the Mustang was 95% of the car for just over half the money. Bargain of the century and what not. So he bought one.
He kept that car for four months. It was everything he thought it would be, but every time he got in it he felt like he was putting on someone else's clothes. The car was absolutely as fantastic as everyone said it was, it jut never felt like his car. He kept the M3 for something like six years and 220K miles. It changed the way I looked at buying cars. Sometimes (maybe all the time) it's better to have the wrong car that you're in love with than talking yourself into the right car.
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
"VIOLENTLY FASTER" is such a fantastic description. I got the chance last fall to run a '16 SS1LE at our last auto-x. He was running some RE7R's. Car was just.... "bonkers", or maybe "plaid" would be a great dexcription. Turn in, overall grip and brakes are phenomenal. The engine is tame at light, concise throttle inputs. Luckily I haven't been blessed with a light throttle foot. Letting a hamfisted moron like me behind the wheel is orderline insane and I can tell you that car makes me smile.
Could I live with it everyday? Hell no. Too confined, roof was too short, sightlines are terrible etc. But damn.... give that car some room and it's idiotically impressive.
mazdeuce - Seth said:Sometimes (maybe all the time) it's better to have the wrong car that you're in love with than talking yourself into the right car.
Wise statement. Your brain may make you the best choice, but it's your heart that makes it possible to swallow writing that rather large check each month. There's no way I would buy a new car in that price range unless I was absolutely, 100% in love with it. Which one is that? Maybe it's neither?
IF we really bought what makes the most sense we'd all drive Camrys and minivans (not that there's anything wrong with that.)
996 Turbos are eerily reliable. My friend has one, bought it with 35k miles on it, has over 100k miles on it now. Has done just basic maintenance.
They have the "old" Metzger motor, so no IMS/RMS issues. Easy to find one at your price point with low mileage and like I said,you won't lose any money on it.
For low to mid $40k's, they're a no brainer purchase.
You'll need to log in to post.
