ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory Dork
2/6/14 4:48 p.m.

NMNA

http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/cto/4314852449.html

Knurled
Knurled PowerDork
2/6/14 4:50 p.m.

FWIW, I found the trans for one of those CHEAP but apparently they are made of glass and not worthy of a performance application, such as a turbocharged 20v 5-cylinder Audi engine in an RX-7, just to pull a hypothetical example out of the blue.

SlickDizzy
SlickDizzy PowerDork
2/6/14 4:57 p.m.

They use a VW diesel and are pretty cool in that they're basically better than a VW in every way. There exists a kit to stick a T5 back there now, FWIW.

SlickDizzy
SlickDizzy PowerDork
2/6/14 4:59 p.m.

Some inspiration

RoughandReady
RoughandReady Reader
2/6/14 5:31 p.m.

In reply to Knurled:

IIRC, these use the same manuals as the gas cars. I think the difference is in the bellhousing.

Ditchdigger
Ditchdigger UltraDork
2/6/14 6:31 p.m.

Woo! a 60hp diesel in a refrigerator shaped tank.

I fail to see the desirability.

If it is VW based then those old Bosch IDI pumps don't take well to boost without a VERY expensive rebuild/reworking, and a diesel without a turbo is about as appealing as stepping in poo while barefoot.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UberDork
2/6/14 7:00 p.m.

We used to make pretty good money taking the worn out VW diesels out and installing a gas powertrain from a wreck. They would wear the cylinders barrel shaped in a couple hundred thousand kilometers, and wouldn't start without being plugged in, from about September to May. The same engine, turbocharged in the 700, made me a bucket of money doing head gasket twice, then installing a gas motor at 200,000 km.

The transmissions are identical to the gas M46, other than a different bellhousing, shifter rod length and a sleeve to bring the pilot bearing diameter up. They are anything but glass.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory Dork
2/6/14 7:25 p.m.
Ditchdigger wrote: I fail to see the desirability.

I didn't see it either, just figured it was rare/odd

Knurled
Knurled PowerDork
2/6/14 7:31 p.m.
RoughandReady wrote: In reply to Knurled: IIRC, these use the same manuals as the gas cars. I think the difference is in the bellhousing.

Yep... and the manual is not supposed to be reliable beyond 200ft-lb.

SlickDizzy
SlickDizzy PowerDork
2/6/14 9:31 p.m.

M46/7 sucks, which is why the T5 conversion was developed. Weak, weak transmissions that blow up 3rd with stock power.

mtn
mtn UltimaDork
2/6/14 9:32 p.m.

I very briefly owned a gas 240 manual sedan. 89, but I don't think there were really any changes in there. I bought mine for $300, and sold it for $500, and it was honestly worth about... Maybe $800. I was highly impressed by the Swedish engineering in it. I've looked for them again. Nothing spectacular about it, but you have to admire a car that the broken odometer says 200k, and the thing just won't die.

EvanB
EvanB PowerDork
2/6/14 9:34 p.m.
mtn wrote: but you have to admire a car that the broken odometer says 200k, and the thing just won't die.

On a redblock Volvo that just lets you know the break-in period is over.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UberDork
2/6/14 9:58 p.m.
SlickDizzy wrote: M46/7 sucks, which is why the T5 conversion was developed. Weak, weak transmissions that blow up 3rd with stock power.

I'm really not sure where you guys are getting this. Uberboost, maybe, but the guy I worked for at the Volvo dealership in the early 80's won the Canadian nation rally championship in a heavily boosted B23 242 (like 20 psi on a K-jetronic) on a stock M46 with the Laycock overdrive available in 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Mr Skowronnek was not a gentle man behind the wheel, I can assure you.

SlickDizzy
SlickDizzy PowerDork
2/6/14 10:19 p.m.

In reply to Streetwiseguy:

On all the Volvo forums like turbobricks.com and swedespeed.com, the M46/7 are not renowned for their longevity by any means. Broken output shafts, broken layshafts, broken third gears are all common and the ratios are really crappy and truck-like too. The Euro-only M90 transmission is the sought-after RWD Volvo box.

EvanR
EvanR HalfDork
2/7/14 12:02 a.m.

I had one. When they're great, they're great. 40mpg wasn't out of the question on the highway, but it took a long time to get going. You have to be very good with IDI VW diesels, or know someone who is, but a good one is a keeper car.

Ian F
Ian F UltimaDork
2/7/14 7:07 a.m.

Some years ago my ex-g/f was considering a 240 5 spd wagon and we test drove one - or more accurately, she made me drive it ("you're better with strange clutches than me..." ...whatever...).

My first reaction was, "holy crap - this thing shifts like my old Toyota truck!" That car had an actual 5 spd - not the earlier J-type o/d 4 spd. That said, the 4 spd +1 M41 in my ES shifts like a truck as well.

Of course, this could be part of the reason for Volvo longevity: they're essentially truck drivetrains wrapped in car bodies.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltraDork
2/7/14 7:14 a.m.

I'm surprised nobody has asked this yet: If it's a VW diesel, will a TDI bolt in?

EvanR
EvanR HalfDork
2/7/14 11:13 a.m.
MadScientistMatt wrote: I'm surprised nobody has asked this yet: If it's a VW diesel, will a TDI bolt in?

You'd think so, but no. the VW/Audi 4-cylinders use a different bellhousing pattern than the I-5/I-6. However, if one was so inclined, there are all manner of powerful 6-cylinder Audi engines that will bolt up to this bellhousing.

dculberson
dculberson UltraDork
2/7/14 11:14 a.m.

What about the Audi v8?

Knurled
Knurled PowerDork
2/7/14 1:24 p.m.

It should. A guy on Motorgeek is using one of these bellhousings to put an Audi V8 into a Miata. Not sure what trans he is going to be using, but I'm fairly sure that the bellhousing is just a convenient starting point for adapting.

IIRC the starter bolt holes do not line up.

Generally there are three species of VWAG bellhousing - VR, I4, and I5/I6/V6/V8. The new transverse five is different but similar to some of the old stuff, soem say four some say five...

dculberson
dculberson UltraDork
2/7/14 7:53 p.m.

A manual trans Audi v8 powered Volvo 240 wagon would be pretty killer.

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