UTCC - Am I the only one?

The combination of the two is pretty cool. Former Challenge cars at the UTCC are awesome. Condor guys are a great example! I'd love to get a Challenge car there some day.

I enjoy the UTCC coverage, but it leaves me more confused than before I started. Why didn't any Nissan GT-R show up and how would they have compared? How about one of those Mosler Consuliers that taunt me on page 11? How did a '88 M3 end up in 7th place while the next fastest BMW, an '02 M3, is in 17th? Okay the '88 had a E46 M3 transplant, but where are all of these latest and greatest twin turbo v8 M3? I thought a 3rd gen RX7 with a v8 swap would be quite the weapon but it was 23rd! An allmighty Porsche GT3 came 18th behind 6 pieces of american iron (Corvette / Mustang), 3 japanese rally-car wannabies, 2 BMWs and gasp a NASCAR? Dr. Ferdinand must be spinning in his grave even if the bean-counters in Stuttgart are happy. I thought Lotus 7 was to aerodynamic efficiency what Michael Schumacher is to sportsmanship and fair play, yet one (Lotus 7) came in 9th.

I find it depressing to see a dedicated track car worth more than my house run away with this competition but I do see a glimmer of hope in home built creations like the March Carlo. I would love to see in depth articles (plural) on that car. Preferably articles that include lots of measurements and enough technical details to inspire us to build something similar our garage that would be safe out on the track. Similarly I would like Per to publish enough details on his Le Grand so I could build a replica that would fit under the same fiberglass body that he now has molds for.

Actually, I think the big take away here kids is that after you graduate from a Miata the place to start for a track day weapon is the newest Corvette you can afford.

I really like the Track Car Challenge. I made it up to VIR for the event in 2010. Lots of fun. It's pretty cool to see such a wide variety of cars on the track at the same time. I'd love to assemble a car and be part of the on track festivities. The only downside to this event I can think of is the HEAT! My god, it's just brutal.

I enjoy both the UTCC and the Challenge coverage. But what I would like to see is some coverage on some of the better cars running in Lemons and Chump. They are about as grassroots as it gets and there is some great ingenuity involved. As well as alot of fun.

exST165, if I remember correctly, you don't HAVE to let the hot shoes drive your car.

So a seemingly faster car, being slow, could be down to the fact an average track day guy is driving it vs Danny Popp.

As awesome as the challenge is, the UTCC is ten times more so.

z31maniac, I didn't know that there were hot shoes available. I thought every team had to provide their own driver and I agree that is a huge variable in the results.

THere may not be? I just assumed that was the case, like the challenge?

There are no "pro drivers" at the UTCC like there are at the challenge. Many entrants bring pro-level drivers, but it's because they found them on their own. (Or in many cases, are pros themselves.)

It's hard to translate into paper, but as others pointed out there's a whole lot of Grassroots in the UTCC field. Hell, even the winning car is a budget version of the full-strength Daytona Prototypes built by Riley. (Full DP car is $405K plus your own engine, Track Day Car is $225K turnkey.)

I think if you talked to the drivers personally, it would be easier to feel the GRM in their entries. Guys like Tristan Herbert and Devon Cates are great examples; they're stretching their inner Grassroots to be involved in Pro Racing, but that means getting podiums at professional events and trumping teams that spend WAY more money.

The UTCC may be my favorite of our "house" events every year, simply due to fact that everybody there is doing their best with what they've got. What they have may be (OK, certainly is) more valuable than what I drive doesn't make them un-grassroots; the fact that they're out there driving against more expensive machinery makes them very grassroots IMHO.

Awesome input on the UTCC, thanks to all for taking the time to chime in. As someone noted, our goal is to make a magazine that appeals to a broad range of folks, and some people are bound to end up bored by the occasional article. It's easy to assume that the expensive cars are inherently faster at the UTCC, but Glenn Bunch's Hemi Challenger won overall in 2010, and that was a seriously grassroots home-built effort.

Driver talent has a lot to do with the outcome; for legal reasons we don't provide pro drivers at the UTCC, but people are welcome to bring any driver with a NASA TT or equivalent license, and a number of folks stick pros in the seat to maximize performance. Just like the $2K Challenge, a lot of people want to have the fun for themselves, even if they know they might not be the top dog in track skill.

The part that amuses me the most about the UTCC is that nearly every driver seems convinced that they're doing it the most grassroots way, and everyone else must be spending way more money. We'd need an entire accounting and auditing department to try to enforce budget at the event, so that's not realistic, and honestly, who cares? It's the ULTIMATE Track Car Challenge. If Audi wants to bring the R18 next year, that's awesome, I'd love to see how it compares head-to-head with guys like Bunch and the Condor Speed Shop folks, or even that crazy pickup.

Since we give everyone at the event some ink as thanks for participating, it does limit the space we have. We tried this year to add variation in the coverage by going more in-depth on a few of the cars, and we're always pondering new ways to keep it concise in the magazine but give everyone the love they deserve. You'll see in-depth features on some of the cars at the event in future issues, of course, but next year we'll try to get a little more tech-y. And hopefully we can do some more video, too; Did you see all the incars at: our YouTube channel?

For the Sanford and Son Truck lovers....stay tuned. GRM has more than one picture of that heinous trash heap. Mighty thanks to GRM for their attention!

Maroon92 wrote: As awesome as the challenge is, the UTCC is ten times more so.

I wouldn't say 10 times, but when I think of what I aspire to do in my life, the UTCC would top the challenge. I'm not nearly a good enough fabricator to win the challenge (or rich enough/good enough driver to win UTCC), but I see UTCC fitting me better.

What's the cost to enter the UTCC?

I have to admit that I initially found it difficult to reconcile UTCC with "Grassroots". Not because I believe that GRM = supercheap, but because I figured that it would soon attract big money race cars and teams. You can convince yourself that almost anyone who's not directly sponsored by Red Bull is grassroots if you try hard enough, but a Ford factory team running a 2011 Mustang Boss 302S is a pretty hard sell.

But it's really just a big Time Attack/time trial with a very loose rule set, and it's that rule set that keeps it interesting. I have to admit I don't bother looking at the places, but at the cars. Quite a variety.

Personally, I'd love to bring one of my cars out to it. But I do not have the driving chops to swim in that pool.

I suppose I'm going to go a little both ways. I love the idea of the event, but would like to see some changes in the coverage. Only problem, I'm not sure how I would do it differently. I generally do not like "list" type articles, which that mostly is, but how do you get more depth in the "opening" article without doing that?

And just to throw out a comment from David's column, when did track events turn into an arms race? My big problem is that I need the funding to buy a new Riley, or Z06, or GTR, and now even an old Chevy truck...damit, now I need a new tape measure to see how much motor I can fit into the 240....with a tape measure, sawsall and a beer, anything will fit...

racerdave600 wrote: And just to throw out a comment from David's column, when did track events turn into an arms race?

Around the time the second one was held, I believe.

Keith is spot on. Run whatcha brung seems to be the mantra and it looks like it would be a lot of fun to watch these cars throw down.

red5_02 wrote: Keith is spot on. Run whatcha brung seems to be the mantra and it looks like it would be a lot of fun to watch these cars throw down.

Take it from me Red5_02. It's a wild day at the track. You see so much car porn it will make your gear shifter stand up. This was my second time at the event and I'm floored each time with the variety and quality of the cars attending.

Xceler8x wrote:

red5_02 wrote: Keith is spot on. Run whatcha brung seems to be the mantra and it looks like it would be a lot of fun to watch these cars throw down.

Take it from me Red5_02. It's a wild day at the track. You see so much car porn it will make your gear shifter stand up. This was my second time at the event and I'm floored each time with the variety and quality of the cars attending.

I'm seriously considering making the trip next summer.

I like UTCC more than Challenge.

I am familiar with the owner of the yellow 3rd gen RX7 and the build - link here: http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=875889

The owner, Brent, is active duty military and the build stretched through a few years and tours in far off places like Afganistan until he had a shop finish things up. I think that is a more realistic, believable, grass roots approach that a regular guy with a life, work and family can pull off compared to some of the challenge car write-ups that I have read in the magazine.

According to some of those write-ups, you need to be a professional fabricator spending the equivalent of your time in fabbing your own stuff rather than spending the equivalent of your time in money to buy the pre-fabbed part. I would think it would be hard to make time for family and trying to get ahead in your job when you spend that much time on a car and pissing off your neighbors with parts cars strewn around your property.

amg_rx7 wrote: I like UTCC more than Challenge. I am familiar with the owner of the yellow 3rd gen RX7 and the build - link here: http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=875889 The owner, Brent, is active duty military and the build stretched through a few years and tours in far off places like Afganistan until he had a shop finish things up. I think that is a more realistic, believable, grass roots approach that a regular guy with a life, work and family can pull off compared to some of the challenge car write-ups that I have read in the magazine. According to some of those write-ups, you need to be a professional fabricator spending the equivalent of your time in fabbing your own stuff rather than spending the equivalent of your time in money to buy the pre-fabbed part. I would think it would be hard to make time for family and trying to get ahead in your job when you spend that much time on a car and pissing off your neighbors with parts cars strewn around your property.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

How did I miss this post for two weeks?

I am a huge fan of the UTCC. It is much more inline with my motorsport involvement than the Challenge. Even if it isn't at VIR next year - it will still be at a real, actual race track. I am not a concours waxer, cone-packer or drag racer so that matters to me. My idea of racing happens on a road-course and I want to be driving more than a few seconds for the effort of towing half-way across the country. As it stands... I can just suck up to the powers that be for an invite, drag my current car down, race it with NASA since it takes place on a race weekend and if my car is still running :) ... do the UTCC. This is the one that I will try to make the time to participate in next year. I do wish the coverage in the mag was more in-depth perhaps at the cost of leaving the Nonamakers and anything having to do with Lincolns without a spot?

The 200x Challenge is cool and I totally live some of the spirit - I fabricate whatever I can when I build a race car and I do play chicken with a budget of sorts... just a more realistic one that allows for fresh rubber and parts that give me some comfort level that they will stay put when turning and braking at 130mph. While I really love to read about exploding turbo Reliant K's as entertainment I really don't ever see me participating just because I have no use for the rules of engagement. I still look forward to that issue and all the writeups on individual cars that follow.

Thanks for the comments on the March Carlo. The car is quite a bit faster than it showed at the UTCC. As my first time driving VIR I found the track more technical than I could sort out in a handful of laps. Danny Popp agreed to take the car out the following day so I could an idea what it would turn there but we ran out of time before we got a chance to do it.

Building the car was a lot of fun and only took a few things, in his order- Beer, a bunch of internet research on aerodynamics (mulsannescorner.com is a great site), late nights in the garage, and a small amount of money.

I'd be happy to answer any technical questions on it anybody had.

jhawk22424, do you have a build thread? I would love to see details on that car. You are definitely living the dream (okay, one of my dreams) in building your own race car from scratch.

Scott, rather than tweeking the UTCC has there been any thought to a spin-off series? Just as "Happy Days" gave us "Joni loves Chachi" (wow, did I just date myself or what ...) could the UTCC give us the Ultimate Miata Challenge? Same idea as the UTCC but just limited to cars that started life as a Miata. Talk about a grudge match for the ages: bragging rights for the fastest Miata.