Vintage Racer Group Now Welcoming Cars Through the 1980s

LanEvo said:

I've run my 1987 190E 2.3-16 with VRG as part of the Pittsburgh Vintage GP a couple of times over the last few years. So, I guess they've already been open to '80s cars for at least a little while now. 

frenchyd said:

Aston Martin, Ferrari, Jaguar, Corvette. OK. 
But a 4 door automatic sedan, even it is tarted up with numbers and a roll cage? 

Lots of homologation specials in the 80's and 90's were based on econoboxes. What makes a '70s Vette more of a racecar than a Sierra Cosworth?

Really most 1980's cars are pretty awful. It was early pollution control, early EFI,  early safety, etc.  Yes they got better. An early 80's Corvette was a pretty blaaah car.  By the end of the 80's things were getting much better. 
So it's pretty hard to get excited about cars of that era except they tend to be cheap.  And cheap at least to the GRM crowd is better.   

In reply to frenchyd :

Ou Contraire Sir;  CRX, MR2, 944, V8 Fox Body Mustangs, Merkur, Corolla GTS all of these cars were a revelation in comparison to cars from just 5 or 6 years before. Even a 84 Vette is way better than the 79.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Yeah, I'm with you there. The '80s gave us many, many great cars. More to add to that list: Porsche 944, Porsche 911, E30 BMW, Golf/Rabbit. The cars were simple regarding electronics but still making progress via other technology--things like VTEC, wishbone suspension, etc. I would totally vintage race a Firehawk car. 

In reply to David S. Wallens :

Pepe Pombo's 240SX comes to mind.

In reply to frenchyd :

So you are saying "get off my lawn".  Got it.

The first car I ever autocrossed was my dad's 85 MR2.  That would have been in 85 or 86.  Great car.

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

I had an 84 MR2 for about a year; they are great cars, I actually liked my May of 89 Miata better but the MR2 was great fun on and off the track.

The 80s cars are near and dear to me; I was never a muscle car because I had motorcycles, which were much faster, handled better and had real brakes. There were some great handling cars from the 70s but European cars were beyond my budget. When things like the Rabbit/Golf GTI, CRX & MR2 they were really exciting and affordable. Another big bonus is these cars all had AC (we'd move to Vegas by then), most 70s cars didn't have AC.

Tom1200 said:

In reply to vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) :

look ooo ooo a 504, nice.

That's a 505 Turbo.

In reply to vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) :

I'd still happily flog it.........

I was thinking about this more last night: Yeah, an old Firehawk car would be awesome--and one set up with a bunch of auxiliary lamps on the front. Also, how about just an '80s SCCA Showroom Stock car? Or Playboy endurance? Lotta choices. 

In reply to David S. Wallens :

My 1990 Showroom Stock C Miata had a few top 5s at the RunOffs (before I bought it)  and was one of the most fun cars I've ever raced.  I would love to race that as a vintage car.

Tom1200 said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Ou Contraire Sir;  CRX, MR2, 944, V8 Fox Body Mustangs, Merkur, Corolla GTS all of these cars were a revelation in comparison to cars from just 5 or 6 years before. Even a 84 Vette is way better than the 79.

 

The 84 Corvette had a dash full of potential disaster. A transmission that is very glad the engine in front of it didn't have as much power as it later got and a fuel rejection system without the ability the later OBD2 gave it.  
Was it better than the 79?  OK. And it got better as the decade progressed. ( I owned an 86 ) 

    As for the others you mentioned. Please compare them to the 90's versions. 
The things I mentioned really were valid. The EFI was bad not by design but the ability to trouble shoot and repair. With a sufficient knowledge mass to fix at a reasonable cost. In Those days mechanics would blindly replace parts they could name and if it didn't fix the problem, really start to throw money at it. 

In reply to frenchyd :

Given we are talking vintage racing, what vintage race car is better that a more modern counterpart?  To compare a C4 a C5 WRT vintage racing is, well, not a relevant comparison.  Across the board, 80s  cars were superior than their 70s' counterparts.  And in many cases, better than their 60s' counterparts.  

And none of that is relevant, since we are talking about preserving history and the racing around it.

In reply to vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) : Jon and Janet raced with us with the Peugeot in Escort series Briody Racing.  First factory car was a 505 Diesel!!  

In reply to frenchyd :

The VRG announcement was about the inclusion of Improved Touring cars.

Further, and why I think it's such a big deal is the modifications were very limited for Improved Touring; No cams, No porting (gasket match only), Weber 32/36 carb, a header and free exhaust. The suspension was bare bones as well, coil overs & sway bars. Brakes are only allowed different pads.

For ITA I'd go with a CRX or RX7, for ITB I'd do a 2002 or Golf, for ITC a Civic hatch. My Datsun as been modified well beyond the ITC rules.

I see including 80s IT cars as a great way to grow vintage racing.

Tom1200 said:

In reply to David S. Wallens :

My 1990 Showroom Stock C Miata had a few top 5s at the RunOffs (before I bought it)  and was one of the most fun cars I've ever raced.  I would love to race that as a vintage car.

Who ran your car at the Runoffs? And, yeah, be cool to see a "vintage" SSC Miata, complete in the original/stock color as per the SCCA rules at the time. 

Tom1200 said:

In reply to frenchyd :

For ITA I'd go with a CRX or RX7, for ITB I'd do a 2002 or Golf, for ITC a Civic hatch. My Datsun as been modified well beyond the ITC rules.

I see including 80s IT cars as a great way to grow vintage racing.

I like that list. A few more that would be cool to see:

ITA BMW 2002tii or Mazda RX-3

ITB Volvo 142E

ITC VW Rabbit

Also, gotta mention ITS: 240Z or 13B RX-7. (And how about an ITS GSL-SE?)

David S. Wallens said:

Tom1200 said:

In reply to frenchyd :

For ITA I'd go with a CRX or RX7, for ITB I'd do a 2002 or Golf, for ITC a Civic hatch. My Datsun as been modified well beyond the ITC rules.

I see including 80s IT cars as a great way to grow vintage racing.

I like that list. A few more that would be cool to see:

ITA BMW 2002tii or Mazda RX-3

ITB Volvo 142E

ITC VW Rabbit

Also, gotta mention ITS: 240Z or 13B RX-7. (And how about an ITS GSL-SE?)

I know more than one person that ran an 80's era Spider in ITB.  See them for sale in Alfa Owner pretty often.  Curiously, almost no GTV6's that should be ITA.  One or two, but not as many as hard top equipped Spiders.

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

That's right, you did see some Alfas in ITB back in the day. Why not get those cars back on track in vintage? Seems like a fun thing to do. 

In reply to David S. Wallens :

 Eric Morehouse ran the car at the Runoffs; I bought it after it was no longer eligible for Nationals. For those folks who don't remember Showroom Stock cars were eligible for Nationals for 5 years then 2 more years for Regionals. I actually raced Alex Gurney at a regional, he was running a Neon. We both went under the current SSC lap record, naturally he was 5-6 tenths a lap fast than me. Eventually I managed to find another 5-6 tenths but then John Fernandez showed up in the Neon mule that Emerson Fittipaldi drove as part of the development work.........................sigh I was never able to manage the SSC lap record.  I did manage to get into the top ten overall. Pretty good considering we routinely had over 40 cars in the IT / Showroom Stock group.  The best part was that I also used the car as a daily driver.

ITB 142E = Sam Moore.  I loved my Volvo 142 street car, it would made a great race car.

As for ITA RX3s we had loads of them running; they could be had cheap.  A few of them welded the diffs, this mod came to be known as a Las Vegas Locker

Tom1200 said:

In reply to frenchyd :

The VRG announcement was about the inclusion of Improved Touring cars.

Further, and why I think it's such a big deal is the modifications were very limited for Improved Touring; No cams, No porting (gasket match only), Weber 32/36 carb, a header and free exhaust. The suspension was bare bones as well, coil overs & sway bars. Brakes are only allowed different pads.

For ITA I'd go with a CRX or RX7, for ITB I'd do a 2002 or Golf, for ITC a Civic hatch. My Datsun as been modified well beyond the ITC rules.

I see including 80s IT cars as a great way to grow vintage racing.

OK I'm a snob.  I think 4 door sedans certainly have a place. I just don't think calling them sports cars is honest.   But hey I think real sports cars have wire wheels and a hand crank. 
      However I've no objection to those taxi cabs filling out the fields so the real sports cars can play ( I'm saying that very much tongue-in-cheek) Just get off my lawn!!! 

In reply to frenchyd :

No worres; 30 years later my mentor still gives me crap becuase I gave up racing a proper GP bike to go race that Datsun "peoples car".

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Given we are talking vintage racing, what vintage race car is better that a more modern counterpart?  To compare a C4 a C5 WRT vintage racing is, well, not a relevant comparison.  Across the board, 80s  cars were superior than their 70s' counterparts.  And in many cases, better than their 60s' counterparts.  

And none of that is relevant, since we are talking about preserving history and the racing around it.

My beloved Jaguar XJS V12 is a 1984. So I legitimately know of what I speak. I mean cramming 3  Volkswagen Rabbit ECM 's together to run a V12?    
  You think that's bad? Look at a 1984 Corvette's Fuel injection. 

Rules like this generally come about when the staff starts noticing the clientele base declining due to age.

I remember when I called into the classic rock station and requested Metallica and Pearl Jam. And they laughed at me and said those aren't classic songs. I told him To eat my shorts

In reply to frenchyd :

Still better than carbs- especially 70's era carbs designed for the Clean Air Act.  Alfa had EFI in '82, and it was way better than the SPICA it replaced- got all of the power back, was cleaner, better driving, and more efficient.  

Unless you are honestly trying to convince people that an 84 C4 is worse than an 79 C3.  I very much don't buy that.  Heck, I know for sure that an EFI 85 Mustang is better than it's carbed '79 brother.  I'm not talking modified ones.

Either way, it's not important when obsolete 80's era race cars are trying to find a place to race.

Another opportunity to post a pic of my own '80s econobox racer...

How many "sportscars" of the '70s had a better racing pedigree?