Vajingo said:Cooter said:They aren't going to make any money on the turn signals.
(I can't believe no one went there)They already do. Ever notice how man high end cars have burned out turn bulbs? Like, less than a year old. And guess what isn't covered by the warranty? Yeah, bulbs.
I think that you missed the joke about BMW drivers not using their turn signals.
rustybugkiller said:Why don't they just concentrate on making the cars more reliable after the warranty runs out!
Because that doesn't generate the same profit as terrified brand addicts trading in for a new one before it explodes.
*Laughs in SG_CODIEREN*
If travelling on the Titanic, go first class....
Better to just have a transportation subscription. They keep you in wheels for a given fee and new cars show up as needed. Repairs and maintenance no longer your problem. Pay for extras if you wish.
Also gets rid of the pesky used car market , indy garages and aftermarket industry that annoys the big guys so much.
1) Their Apple Car Play subscription service didn't work. Obviously they didn't learn from that.
2) Bypassing the seat heater thing would be fairly simple. Install your own circuit and switch and voila! You've got a warm cornhole.
3) Repeat line item 2 for any other system that requires a "subscription"
3a) or just don't buy their product and let the capitalist market do the rest.
This is all kinds of wrong. I'm not interested in paying a monthly charge for features that are already on the car. As noted above, their subscription service for Apple CarPlay failed miserably.
What we need to worry about is if all the other car makers start doing this, then we're stuck with it.
If they have figured out some way to over the air upgrade seats to have heaters when you subscribe, that is ground breaking. If they are proposing to lock you out of the seat heaters that you purchase with the car until you subscribe, that is just what I expect from out of touch designers.
docwyte said:This is all kinds of wrong. I'm not interested in paying a monthly charge for features that are already on the car. As noted above, their subscription service for Apple CarPlay failed miserably.
What we need to worry about is if all the other car makers start doing this, then we're stuck with it.
Keeping an older car on the road is more enviro-friendly then purchasing a new car that required more raw materials to make. Not purchasing a new car that has subscription based features is also another way to let producers of such products know that they suck. However we live in an age where people tend to just comply and obey big corporations so that option is already out the door.
Inevitably these things will have fail safes built in. I.e. if you disconnect the antenna that downloads updates and subscription info - it will likely go into fail/closed mode rendering the options useless. Even if you manage to hack it with software you'll still be vulnerable to future update zaps until the car is out of warranty. Hardwiring something into a separate circuit is the only long term viable solution to a thing like this if you don't want to "void" the warranty via the tattler.
Weird I was considering a BMW for my next car since I'll be in the market soon.
That's a pretty surefire way to ensure I won't even consider your marquee.
Same goes for Cadillacs after the E36 M3 they just pulled with the supercruise system.
If BMW wants to do this does it mean that any item you are paying a subscription for is covered under warranty as long as your subscription is up to date. BMW is really saying they own it and you are just renting. I doubt it very much. They already pretty much have a market on bringing the car back to dealership for service to maintain warranty.
i had a BMW Z4 and absolutely loved the car. Was using it for a business trip probably 600 miles from where I live. One morning it wouldn't start and hotel employee jump started it. Drove to nearby Advance Auto and they confirmed battery was bad. However they said they could not replace because it required a computer reset. Went to two other auto part stores and was told the same thing. Took it too a close by city and BMW dealership and folks said sure enough it was battery and it would require a computer reset. Almost $350 later drove out of dealership with nothing else except the new battery. Of course they did wash car and I had all the Starbucks and snacks I wanted.
From that day forward I started to worry about a serious electrical problem as car was out of warranty.
DirtyBird222 said:. Hardwiring something into a separate circuit is the only long term viable solution to a thing like this if you don't want to "void" the warranty via the tattler.
Either that, or uploading a complete new firmware that is missing any update commands or can only be updated with a hard-wired connection. I had been thinking the best bet would be something like a retrofit wiring harness kit, at lest for the heated seats.
In reply to DirtyBird222 :
That's what I'll be doing. I won't be buying a new car that requires a monthly subscription to be paid for features...
pirate said:If BMW wants to do this does it mean that any item you are paying a subscription for is covered under warranty as long as your subscription is up to date. BMW is really saying they own it and you are just renting. I doubt it very much. They already pretty much have a market on bringing the car back to dealership for service to maintain warranty.
i had a BMW Z4 and absolutely loved the car. Was using it for a business trip probably 600 miles from where I live. One morning it wouldn't start and hotel employee jump started it. Drove to nearby Advance Auto and they confirmed battery was bad. However they said they could not replace because it required a computer reset. Went to two other auto part stores and was told the same thing. Took it too a close by city and BMW dealership and folks said sure enough it was battery and it would require a computer reset. Almost $350 later drove out of dealership with nothing else except the new battery. Of course they did wash car and I had all the Starbucks and snacks I wanted.
From that day forward I started to worry about a serious electrical problem as car was out of warranty.
Had the same with my 135i. I literally shopped the entire country to find a late model, white with coral interior, etc. Super low miles, one owner.
It proceeded to eat my lunch with maintenance in 18 months (cars with 30k miles shouldn't be expected to have multiple oil leaks, but check the forums, they do). I have no desire for modern turbo BMWs anymore and now clean E30s are insanely priced.
And yet, I have an overwhelming desire for a new Supra.
The problem is that this is a business model that while hated by most "car people" is acceptable to a large part of the people that purchasing there cars.
This would never work with Toyota or Mazda because the demographic that purchas there cars is different.
BMW use to be an enthusiast brand. Even there flagship cars had a sporty edge. You were "in the know" if you drove a bmw. Now they are just another high priced luxury car brand.
In reply to z31maniac :
It's the BMW US business model - they need to keep their numbers up, so they are all-in on low-to-zero profit leases. The unreliability is a feature, not a bug. It allows the cars to be more profitable (using cheap plastic in inappropriate places, for example) and it keeps the customers (dealers) happy, as it keeps their repair bays full.
I saw a Z4 with the top down yesterday and it looked great. I would say if I was a 65-year-old dude who wanted a cruiser, I'd think about leasing one of those and saving some cash vs getting the standard boxster. I've seen a few Supras around and while they look better than in pictures, they are still standard Toyota-level-Gundam-chopped-up-with-a-sword-ugly. I guess I'm too old for the look, since I think the Civic Type R is all kinds of ugly too and I see them all over.
MadScientistMatt said:I can't be the only one who read this headline and thought, "Hmmm, what would the BMW's second or third owner pay to unlock these features permanently?"
I am sure by the third owner the aftermarket would have hacked it. Fun things to do in you spare time!
I can see the cost analysis of it working out if most people get heated seats and just a select few you delete it in software, which is free. The cost of tooling up a lot of different versions can be quite expensive unless you make it all very modular. Much harder than making a 0 a 1. This can easily play out with future power trains where you have to pay more to get more power, through software, even if the hardware is exactly the same. In some ways it's already very close to that with some manufacturers.
Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:The unreliability is a feature, not a bug.
If I told this truth to all my German owning friends and collegues, I wouldn't have any friends left.
dean1484 said:
This would never work with Toyota or Mazda because the demographic that purchas there cars is different.
Yet here Mazda is, trying to go upmarket. I think that even if BMW's idiotic decision here loses them market share, it'll be Lexus or Benz that takes it over.
mr2s2000elise said:Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:The unreliability is a feature, not a bug.
If I told this truth to all my German owning friends and collegues, I wouldn't have any friends left.
Us Bimmer guys tried to overlook it for years. But it just can't be anymore. The problems modern BMWs have is plainly unacceptable.
Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) said:dean1484 said:
This would never work with Toyota or Mazda because the demographic that purchas there cars is different.
Yet here Mazda is, trying to go upmarket. I think that even if BMW's idiotic decision here loses them market share, it'll be Lexus or Benz that takes it over.
Unfortunately, I think you're right. Mazda just doesn't have the cachet of other brands, even though they are building some pretty damn fine cars that ARE reliable.
z31maniac said:mr2s2000elise said:Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:The unreliability is a feature, not a bug.
If I told this truth to all my German owning friends and collegues, I wouldn't have any friends left.
Us Bimmer guys tried to overlook it for years. But it just can't be anymore. The problems modern BMWs have is plainly unacceptable.
Well without you guys, we wouldn't have any entertainment 
Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) said:dean1484 said:
This would never work with Toyota or Mazda because the demographic that purchas there cars is different.
Yet here Mazda is, trying to go upmarket. I think that even if BMW's idiotic decision here loses them market share, it'll be Lexus or Benz that takes it over.
Won't be Lexus. I'd think either Benz or Genesis.
Let's just get to the end game...$29.95 per month to enable the ABS and airbags and not have the exhaust vent into the cabin. 
It's taken Toyota quite a while to make a partially-up-to-date infotainment device. I think they are just now getting carplay/android auto connectivity. Those demographics that purchase those vehicles likely wouldn't indulge in such atrocities either.
When we get level 3 or 4 Autopilot , the computers need to be up to date NOW ,
Will the car companies want to Update for free as long as you keep the car on the road ?
If you do not pay and your Autopilot did not know about the bridge that fell down , who is libel......
I bet there are pages of small print when you buy these cars......
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