In reply to Tom1200 :
Thanks! Any advice on fits?
In reply to Tom1200 :
Thanks! Any advice on fits?
In reply to Evanuel9 :
Fits are great! Again, if you're in that class, Mazda 2 is an underdog that deserves a look too. Fit is definitely more practical, which your friends in back will appreciate, but 2 is probably a bit more fun.
I've had alot of fun in an automatic fit, I'd love to try one with a stick.
In reply to Driven5 :
Definitely looking for a mazda2 but they're comparatively much more rare. I do like the styling and smaller size better though - they seem lighter and more fun like you said. My frontrunners for modern, fwd hatches are the 500 abarth, fit, mazda2, and a FiST
In reply to Shavarsh :
It's damn fun - i've driven my friend's once. Don't have much to compare it to though
In reply to Evanuel9 :
The newer the better......and get a manual.
Fits are eligible for a whole host of fun events.
How about an RX8? It sounds like it would check most of the boxes if you can find a good one.
I'll give you some advice, I got my share when I was young and didn't listen to most of it.
I bought my NC miata new when I was 20, I had made up my mind very much like you. Real sports cars are RWD, lightweight, manual, blah blah blah. I still have it 17 years later, its been through many phases including more hardcore mods and a turbo, and then progressively going back towards stock.
Cars are a personal thing, you can't read what other people like and expect to like the same thing. The miata has a lot of drawbacks..flexible chassis, noisy and fatiguing, not great on bad pavement, sucks as a daily. The E46 is a heap, I hate the way that chassis feels including the M3. You have to go out and try the cars, it's more than handling characteristics. It has to put a smile on your face.
I have just as much fun in a FWD as RWD. Sure you don't get the oversteer, but you learn other techniques too like lifting off to rotate, left foot braking, etc. I also have an 8th gen civic si, I really like that car. The K20 makes up for so much everytime I wring it out to 8k. It's useable as a daily, still handles great, shifts well. If I was forced to do a trackday in it, I'd still be grinning.
Don't sweat over it, it's just a car. If you find something you click with, you're going to learn on it just fine. It doesn't have to be one of the go-to options like a miata or IS300. Learning to drive RWD later on isn't difficult. In your shoes I'd take a hard look at a GTI or civic. These are cars you can enjoy the hell out of driving 7/10, which you'll be doing 99% of the time. Really got to stress that last part, because when you're young it's hard to swallow. It's better to enjoy your car all the time, rather than buy a car you can only enjoy some of the time.
In reply to Boost_Crazy :
Rotary is a terrible idea for someone stretching a first car budget.
Nothing wrong with a 4 door E36. Better for bringing friends on trips, better for fitting a cage so you can clean the rear windows and haul tires the back, better for structural regididty. Factory race cars were 4 door cars. Also leaves a lot more room in your budget to actually go drive and fix the inevitable broken bits.
RWD all the way.
Google sheet of the cars that I am looking at:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1570f_iZOaY7JNImx40TWaxmenQCS16Wh2F7vyTAW7Xo/edit?usp=drivesdk
Ive got a few mazda2s, Honda fits, fiesta sts, and civic si I just haven't added them yet
In reply to Tom1200 :
Definitely going stick. Is the newer generation better than the first gen or just as new as I can get in the first gen?
In reply to Boost_Crazy :
Rotary reliability scares the E36 M3 out of me lol
In reply to twowheeled :
I'd kill for a Miata at 20 lol.
I'm not entirely sure about e46s. From what I can tell the e36s is a better platform from a weight, reliability, complexity, and parts availability standpoint
What do you think of a 8th gen si compared to an rsx? They seem very similar.
Yeah I'm just not certain what I will enjoy more of the time because I just haven't had the chance to drive as many cars. I don't know if I will be happier day to day driving a 2400 lb fwd hatch vs a 2700 lb awd sedan vs a 3000 lb rwd coupe yaknow? If id driven them all I'd probably have a better idea?
Maybe I should see if I can find these cars at used dealers just to get a chance for test drives?
In reply to mr2peak :
I'm surprised to hear the 4 doors are a better platform!
I definitely prefer rwd from the minimal experience I have, I'm just not sure if rwd outweighs a 400-1000 lbs weight difference (is300 or e36 vs mazda2 or Subaru Impreza)
ddavidv said:I would not recommend an E46 [...] BMW for a 'new' driver because the maintenance costs can be pretty awful.
I daily drove a 2003 E46 from 2006 to 2017. It had about 30,000 miles on it when I bought it and about 130,000 miles on it when I sold it to an 18-year-old kid and his dad. It weighed about 3200 lbs.
In my experience I comprehensively disagree with the "expensive BMW maintenance" trope, at least for E46s.
In 11 years, I put 1 battery, 2 window regulators, and 1 window switch in the car. None of those parts cost any more than they would have on any other car. I did 2 sets of front brakes and 1 set of rear brakes, for less than $200 in parts per axle per replacement including rotors. I put 2 sets of tires on it, including maybe 80-100 autocross passes.
It was on the OE clutch, struts, and springs, all of which still worked and felt great. Seriously, in 11 years and 100,000 miles I spent an average of $100 a year on parts for that car, and that includes brakes! If you want to factor in tires and oil it's still under $250 per year.
As a bonus, it was also pretty easy to work on.
At 130,000 miles it was about due for the cooling system refresh when I sold it. But any car he's be looking to buy would probably already have that done. And even if not, there are reasonably priced kits available.
In reply to Evanuel9 :
they are all pretty similar, but if I was young I would lean towards a bigger car, because driving around with friends was a big part of my youth. Do you game at all? I play a lot of GT7, with a force feedback wheel those games taught me a lot of car control too. They simulate the feel of certain cars pretty well. I really liked the way the civics drove in the game, never even considered them in real life. Went out and tried a couple, loved them and bought one.
In reply to twowheeled :
Unfortunately most of my friends are scattered across the country at college and I'm gonna be joining them at college (engineering!! Woo) next August, so size isn't too much of an issue to me as opposed to weight.
I actually do a lot of sim racing on assetto corsa. I'm looking at buying a direct drive wheel soon to replace my belt drive. I have a hard time getting a sense of the car from the game though due to the lack of a chassis/road feel
In reply to Duke :
I'm considering a couple e46s, they're in the spreadsheet. Two 328ci and 1 330ci IIRC. Maintenance scares me but your experience is encouraging. I'm just unsure because they seem a bit "soft" so to speak. More of a GT. Am I way off base??
Evanuel9 said:In reply to twowheeled :
Unfortunately most of my friends are scattered across the country at college and I'm gonna be joining them at college (engineering!! Woo) next August, so size isn't too much of an issue to me as opposed to weight.
I actually do a lot of sim racing on assetto corsa. I'm looking at buying a direct drive wheel soon to replace my belt drive. I have a hard time getting a sense of the car from the game though due to the lack of a chassis/road feel
In college you will be doing college things. Get a hot hatch or a wagon.
Evanuel9 said:I actually do a lot of sim racing on assetto corsa. I'm looking at buying a direct drive wheel soon to replace my belt drive. I have a hard time getting a sense of the car from the game though due to the lack of a chassis/road feel
You should join our races on Wednesday nights, you can request an invite here: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/simulation-central/grm-assetto-corsa-racing-league-mid-season-testing/261165/page1/
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Oh awesome. I will definitely join. I'ma dmittedly not very good and still working with potentiometer pedals (building a set of proper ones). I hope that's okay?
In reply to Evanuel9 :
Most of us are on very ordinary sim rigs like G27 and G29 setups so that's fine.
In reply to twowheeled :
I do love hot hatches and wagons but honestly I don't necessarily see the allure of rolling around with a bunch of friends. 4 seats seems plenty of me and I feel like the fifth is unnecessary if it means compromising on weight or performance
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Awesome! Cant wait
In reply to Evanuel9 :
Mine was a 325i ZSP (sport package). Slightly less power than the pre-facelift 328i, more than the 323i. I would look at post facelift cars (2003+) because not only did they get a small power bump, but they tightened up the suspension a little and cut back on the overboosted power steering of the earlier E46s.
I had the E46 and a Miata at the same time. While you'd never confuse the two, the 325i was fun to drive and didn't embarrass itself on the autocross course.
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