What being on track can tell you that a dyno won't

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

Thread title made me think "oil starvation in corners" but I see that's not even close to the subject.

It was oil starvation under braking, and we fixed that already :)

theruleslawyer said:

bighoward said:

Is water methanol injection systems not allowd in the TT Tuner class?   A properly implemented system setup can bring IAT's down to reasonable numbers.   It'll come down to a engine performance gain vs vehicle dynamics (weight) vs $$ budget.  

Its stock on the GTS, not excluded, so 'legal'. I don't see anything that would allow it to be added however. You'd need to be in Max for TT it looks like. Alternate classing entry looks like MAX as well

I assume you're talking about the F82 M4 GTS, which had the S55 engine that uses a top mounted air-to-water intercooler unlike our N55's front mounted air-to-air cooler. So, yeah, that would be some tough rules-lawyering to get around.

In reply to JG Pasterjak :

Glad to see you are making progress! I appreciate the update. Good luck and have fun.

Could you avoid heat-soaking the intercooler by making it more thermally tied to the car body? Get rid of the isolators, bolt it firmly in contact with a crossmember...

JG Pasterjak said:

theruleslawyer said:

bighoward said:

Is water methanol injection systems not allowd in the TT Tuner class?   A properly implemented system setup can bring IAT's down to reasonable numbers.   It'll come down to a engine performance gain vs vehicle dynamics (weight) vs $$ budget.  

Its stock on the GTS, not excluded, so 'legal'. I don't see anything that would allow it to be added however. You'd need to be in Max for TT it looks like. Alternate classing entry looks like MAX as well

I assume you're talking about the F82 M4 GTS, which had the S55 engine that uses a top mounted air-to-water intercooler unlike our N55's front mounted air-to-air cooler. So, yeah, that would be some tough rules-lawyering to get around.

Right. What I meant it is seems legal on vehicles that came with it stock. IE you're not required to turn it off on track. However I don't see a path to adding it in the aftermarket.

As an M2 N55 owner, this is making me rethink running a tune at the track! I have been running the stock tune for track use, and stock intercooler. I've been considering doing an upgraded intercooler to run a tune, but the added weight so far forward is certainly against the driving dynamics I am looking to get out of the car. It's already low on steering feel, I don't want to slow down the front end even more.

F87Daily said:

As an M2 N55 owner, this is making me rethink running a tune at the track! I have been running the stock tune for track use, and stock intercooler. I've been considering doing an upgraded intercooler to run a tune, but the added weight so far forward is certainly against the driving dynamics I am looking to get out of the car. It's already low on steering feel, I don't want to slow down the front end even more.

The weight difference was like 16lbs, which isn't nothing, but I'll consider it a fair tradeoff in a 3650lb 435i since it actually contributes to making some substantial power. 

Also remember that the testing this story refers to happened on a hot day at Daytona. Close to 90-degree ambient temps. Obviously we haven't been able to do testing again in similar conditions because our weather control machine is on the fritz, but someone who routinely runs track days at lower ambient temps may not have as much of an issue. We definitely saw a huge increase in efficiency with the new intercooler, though. 

I've been tracking an N55 M2 for 8-years, and data logged similar results back in 2017.

In my experience, as soon as you add any additional power via a tune and then try to recover that additional power via IAT reduction with a larger FMIC along with some E85 or race gas, you'll quickly get into needing additional engine coolant and oil cooling bc of the unleashed extra power. 

Altho, if you still want to give it a shot, my recommendation is the MAD Race IC along with better turbo outlet and charge pipes while you're there.
 

Good luck, you won't find this easy and it's a very slippery slope adding power to an N55 for the track. I've managed to get mine to 475whp on E50 while still being an unstripped daily driver that does 1:19s on Summit Main with 200tw tires: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1525790

Zm22 said:

I've been tracking an N55 M2 for 8-years, and data logged similar results back in 2017.

In my experience, as soon as you add any additional power via a tune and then try to recover that additional power via IAT reduction with a larger FMIC along with some E85 or race gas, you'll quickly get into needing additional engine coolant and oil cooling bc of the unleashed extra power. 

Altho, if you still want to give it a shot, my recommendation is the MAD Race IC along with better turbo outlet and charge pipes while you're there.
 

Good luck, you won't find this easy and it's a very slippery slope adding power to an N55 for the track. I've managed to get mine to 475whp on E50 while still being an unstripped daily driver that does 1:19s on Summit Main with 200tw tires: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1525790

475 through a stock turbo? If so that's really impressive and actually way more than I'd ever give that tiny little thing credit for. 

We went with an CSF intercooler on BimmerWorld's recommendation and had already upgraded the pressurized pipes with pieces from Evolution Race Works. At our current power levels (unknown until I actually get some dyno time, which should hopefully be soon, but I'm estimating 340-350whp), we haven't had much issue with oil or coolant temps, but we also did the install right as winter hit. So we're not really going to know for sure until. April or may when we have another 90-degree test session.

In reply to JG Pasterjak :

The stock turbo is only good for maybe 375whp max while still keeping whp levels semi-flatter in higher RPMs for the track. Some guys have pushed to stock turbo to 440whp on E50, but the power drop above 5.5k rpm is huge and the extra heat is definitely not wanted on track. 350whp is probably a sweet spot for it on track.

I picked up a TTE460 some years ago, but the new Pure 500 turbo is what most N55 guys are going with now. Couple it with E30-50 and a 18-19psi tune and you're at 450whp+.

I'm not familiar with the FMC IC. Maybe you meant CSF? If so, there are certainly better options at similar pricing, like the MAD Race, but it may be enough if you limit it to 340-350whp.

Keep us up to date!

Zm22 said:

In reply to JG Pasterjak :

The stock turbo is only good for maybe 375whp max while still keeping whp levels semi-flatter in higher RPMs for the track. Some guys have pushed to stock turbo to 440whp on E50, but the power drop above 5.5k rpm is huge and the extra heat is definitely not wanted on track. 350whp is probably a sweet spot for it on track.

I picked up a TTE460 some years ago, but the new Pure 500 turbo is what most N55 guys are going with now. Couple it with E30-50 and a 18-19psi tune and you're at 450whp+.

I'm not familiar with the FMC IC. Maybe you meant CSF? If so, there are certainly better options at similar pricing, like the MAD Race, but it may be enough if you limit it to 340-350whp.

Keep us up to date!

Yeah, CSF. Fixed. I have no idea what I even meant by FMC. That's what I get for typing too fast on teh first day back to work after the holiday break.