What camera lens(es) do I need?

Hey all, 

Trying to learn about cameras. I recently traded for my dads old Canon EOS M-18P. This is a mirrorless. I don't know much about it. My dad bought it as his first digital camera and moved on to something better, but knowing him it was either a really good camera, or a serviceable camera and a really good deal when he bought it. It came with an 18-55mm Macro 0.25m/0.8ft lens. 

Anyhow, I plan on taking this to a trip in the boundary waters. I'll be taking lots of nature pics, along with fishing pictures. What lens do I want? Is it the one I have?

After that, what lens would I want for taking pictures of people? Again, is it the one I have? My dad kept his "pancake lens", since he said he uses it more than any others that he had. Do I want one of those?

I don't have a budget for this, because I don't know how much these things cost other than "A lot", but lets say I want to keep it on the lowest end of "acceptable".  

Oops, meant to put this in off topic.

The 18-55 lens that you have is probably the kit lens that came with the camera, and the focal length range that it covers is a decent generic range for an APS-C-sized sensor like the camera has.  The lens itself is probably pretty poor optical quality (the kit lenses usually are), but it's good enough to play with as a starting point.

Take the camera out, start shooting with it, and see what you get.  Once you figure out where it's holding you back, buy a better lens that addresses those weaknesses.

By "nature" pictures, what do you mean? Wide landscapes of nature, or close-up details of nature? Fast-moving nature or stationary nature? The same questions apply for "fishing." An 18-55 will be entirely useable, but not necessarily ideal in any case.

The eos-m has limited support, but that’s not to say there’s nothing out there.  A quick search on eBay returns several options, as well as adaptors to use the expansive lineup of canon EF lenses (largest lineup...in the world). 

Id pick up a 50mm large aperture lens and an adaptor and a wider range ef mount zoom lens if you’re set on sticking with the eos-m. Alternately I’d suggest finding a used rebel T5i, 6i, or 7i or 5,6,7 or sl1/2 on ebay, which will open up the full EF and EF-S line of lenses, and most people agree that quality glass trumps quality cameras. 

In reply to Strizzo :

Got me looking at used SLRs on ebay. I need to learn more.

I've had good luck with referbs from Canon's website.

My 80D and 18-135mm USM were both referbs from Canon.

I've scored some good deals on eBay too.

I recently picked up a "nifty 50" on eBay.  50mm f1.8 prime, this lens is amazing, punches way above its weight class.  I took it to my grandmother's 90th birthday party, and got some great portraits with it.

I picked up a 35mm f2.8 macro recently too, it's a trip how close up I can get with the thing.  Even has a built-in ring light to illuminate your subject.

I got my sister a 55-250mm IS, it's pretty good, but I think I want a little more telephoto than that for myself.  I've seen the previous generation 70-300mm IS USM for around $200.  My hands are too shaky to get an non IS telephoto.

In reply to bigdaddylee82 :

I really wanted an 80d when I started shopping, just couldn’t justify the cost at the time. Also you basically just described my lens collection. I think I paid 60 for a non usm plastic fantastic 50/1.8 and I picked up a yongnuo 35mm f2 knockoff of the canon 35 for around 85. They also have an 85 and a 100mm canon knockoff that all get pretty good reviews. The lens that usually lives on my T5 is the ef-s 18-135 nano usm 3.5-5.6. 

I also have a 75-300mm ef non-is that I still pull out for astrophotography when there’s something going on with the moon. 

Floating doc - for around what the eos-m go for you should be able to find a rebel new enough to take some good shots and still giving you upgrade options going forward with lenses, which you can keep when you upgrade to a newer body later on. 

The flip side on long (and heavy) lenses is you want to minimize what you carry with you in the Boundary Waters, so you're not lugging tons of stuff on the portages.

In reply to Strizzo :

Man I did A LOT of research, at the time I could tell you about all the features, pros & cons of most of the 80D's competitors.  It's about the best most feature rich crop sensor DSLR photo camera on the market, or was when I bought it about 2 years ago.  It's not the best for video, no 4K, and while I love it, after living with it for a while, if I were shopping today, I'd consider giving the mirrorless options a closer look, just for something smaller and more portable.

I actually bought a nice Canon PowerShot SX740 point-and-shoot for work, a few months ago.  It costs as much as some of the lower end Rebels, but I can stick it in my pocket, it has a 40X optical zoom, and shoots 4K video.  I wanted something small, with big zoom, the ability to quickly & easily transfer photos to a phone for social media, and didn't want to mess with interchangeable lenses.  It does everything I ask of it, but if you're used to shooting with a DSLR, it's so slow, and I can not get used to how slow it is.  The image quality doesn't hold a candle to my personal DSLR, but for the typical widlife/agricultre photos we're using on social media for work, the PowerShot is good enough, and that 40X zoom out of something that fits in your pocket is pretty impressive.

Examples of what kind of photos I’ll be taking (these were just the first ones I found on google images, not mine or anyone I know):

stuart in mn said:

The flip side on long (and heavy) lenses is you want to minimize what you carry with you in the Boundary Waters, so you're not lugging tons of stuff on the portages.

Yes, a concern, but less so because we base camp. On the way in we will double or triple portage anyways. 

The 18-55mm kit lens is the one you want... most likely.  Canon also developed a 15-45mm as a replacement kit lens to the 18-55, which is: smaller, wider, cheaper, and slower on the ‘far end’.  If you had no lenses, and just the body, I might suggest the 15-45mm instead since it’s only ~$100 used.  But, you’ve got the 18-55mm... so it’s not worth getting the 15-45mm since they’re “effectively duplicates”.

Most of your “nature” shot examples are probably closer to what most photographers would call “landscape”.  Your kit lens’ 18mm (~29mm view on a 35mm film camera) is wide enough to learn the lessons of how to frame and shoot wide-angle shots... which are not as easy as they might seem.  That lens’ 55mm will be good for some simple “portrait” photos, although you’ll have to work hard because the f/5.6 minimum aperture won’t provide a lot of subject separation from its background (but it will be more than the 15-45’s).

The “pancake” is most likely the EF-M 22mm f/2 STM.  Some reasons your dad probably liked it was that’s half the size/weight of the 18-55mm kit lens, and is 2/3 of a stop “faster” than the kit lens’ fastest speed.  Also, the fixed 22mm focal length is about the same as a 35mm lens on a film camera... a view which was used extensively/exclusively by most news photographers over the last 60-odd years.... in addition to being the ‘stock’ lens on most ‘simple’ film cameras.  So, many people are familiar with how to frame shots with that lens, would like the lighter weight, and faster speed.

Should you get one?  Meh.  Not right now.  I agree with codrus, go out and shoot a lot.

The “nifty-50” everyone’s talking about would be a ~35mm focal length lens on the EF-M.  And Canon has a 32mm f/1.4, but it’s $500.  Also, I wouldn’t worry about everyone saying you should get an 80D or other APS-C DSLR.

Instead, if you’re up for the challenge, I suggest you consider getting a good, but “dumb” FD to EF-M lens adapter.  This will allow you to mount up Canon’s old manual focus, manual aperture lenses to your EF-M.  Now, doing so will require you to “skill up” and be comfortable choosing the right aperture, and manually focusing.  However, you’ll be able to pick up several lenses for dirt cheap off keh / amazon / eBay.

tl:dr
your 18-55 will do just fine for the trip.  Enjoy, and don’t drop it in the water.
when you get back, do some research... maybe “skill up” a bit, and unlock shooting with cheap manual vintage lenses.

Also, do yourself a favor, and set up your camera to shoot JPG+RAW.  Storage is cheap these days, and you can a lot with a RAW image after the fact... either yourself when you learn, or farm it out.

Either way, there’s a lot of data and potential that you’re losing by shooting jpg only; and this is a trip to do now and be able to remember later.  So, have the best images for the future, and that’s RAW.

/end.minor.rant. 

In reply to sleepyhead :

I'm the one that brought up the 80D, I never told anyone to get one, I love mine, and am glad I got it, but I simply used it and an a lens I bought as an example of things I've gotten a good deal on from Canon's refurbished selections on their website.  Good deals can be had on a lot of things there, including EF-M lenses.

I even went on to say that if I was buying new today, I'd be seriously looking at mirorless options like the OP is currently using.

No one in  this thread has suggested he get a different camera body.

I agree about shooting in RAW.

Also, you may think a 64 Gb SD card is big enough, but if you're not ingesting files to a computer or storage device somewhere regularly, you'll be surprised how quick those RAW files will fill up an SD card.  Get a few SD cards, the bigger and faster the better.

Sounds good, thanks everyone!

Go get one of those lightweight aluminum tripods (Amazon).  They are under $20 I believe and are very light.  Not good for panning with video, but they will steady the shots you want to take (which you want to take with the lowest shutter speed possible).

Shoot Raw as said.

If you have any access to processing programs (e.g. Photoshop) consider doing multiple shot montages / panoramas.  This can GREATLY increase the detail of a photo.  This is likely a future goal for you, but something to work towards. One of the most powerful features of raw/photoshop is the DeHaze feature (very useful for landscapes).  I will post an example if I remember.

I took both of these recently with multiple shots stitched together (I have some even wider ones).  These are taken off of Mulholland Highway where the recent fires went through.  As you can see, everything is growing back.  

I have an 18-55 and a 55-300 that are bread and butter for most shots.  I also have a 50mm and an 80mm with a much wider aperture that really draw in the light.  I forget, but I think one is n f1.4 and the other is f1.8.  Fantastic portrait lenses.

Fixed focal length will have higher quality in general.  The moving nature of zoom lenses means tolerance which means inaccuracy in lens placement.  Zoom lenses also tend to have smaller apertures for a given price point.  You can get a long lens with a wide aperture, but open the big wallet and carry a big bag.  You're talking well into the 4 digits for a good one like you might see on the sidelines of a football game.  About the time you have a lens that has the tripod mount on the lens instead of the body, you're getting expensive.

You may already know this, but wider aperture (although it brings in more light) also compresses focal distance.  If you're doing landscape stuff and want it all in focus, use a small aperture (high f number).  If you want to keep the plane of focus to just the subject, use a wide aperture.  Ansel Adams had a photography club called the f32 club; landscape stuff where everything was in focus.  Portraiture you might want to fuzz out the background/foreground, use a wide aperture.

My 80mm at f1.8 taking portraits, if I focus on their nose, their ears are out of focus, and the backdrop is a blur.

Long story short, it depends on what you're shooting.  Most of my stuff is landscape and pretty things with the zooms, but I have the fixed lenses for portraiture.

bigdaddylee82 said:

In reply to sleepyhead :

I'm the one that brought up the 80D, I never told anyone to get one, I love mine, and am glad I got it, but I simply used it and an a lens I bought as an example of things I've gotten a good deal on from Canon's refurbished selections on their website.  Good deals can be had on a lot of things there, including EF-M lenses.

I even went on to say that if I was buying new today, I'd be seriously looking at mirorless options like the OP is currently using.

No one in  this thread has suggested he get a different camera body.

I agree about shooting in RAW.

Also, you may think a 64 Gb SD card is big enough, but if you're not ingesting files to a computer or storage device somewhere regularly, you'll be surprised how quick those RAW files will fill up an SD card.  Get a few SD cards, the bigger and faster the better.

I apologize if I made an off-hand comment that exaggerated what (in retrospect) amounts to a thread tangent; however there was the suggestion made to switch cameras.  As it happens, I participated in mtn’s thread from before about “upgrading from phone” cameras, and how low a price-point he was looking at ( which, iirc, was in the $250 system range) and he got the eos-m in trade instead.  Even buying used, kitting out for under $250 can be very difficult.

I’ll try to be less excitable about this in the future.

Yes, I agree, spend money on SD cards.  They’ll fill up quickly out in the woods, especially shooting RAW+JPG... but even so when shooting RAW only.

I’ve looked around briefly for an article to teach “how to shoot wide angle”... because it’s easy to “shoot wide to get it all in”, and end up with an uninteresting photo.  Does anyone have an article they’ve read that laid that out, so man can use the 18mm end of that kit lens more thoughtfully?  I’m coming up empty.

sleepyhead said:

bigdaddylee82 said:

In reply to sleepyhead :

I'm the one that brought up the 80D, I never told anyone to get one, I love mine, and am glad I got it, but I simply used it and an a lens I bought as an example of things I've gotten a good deal on from Canon's refurbished selections on their website.  Good deals can be had on a lot of things there, including EF-M lenses.

I even went on to say that if I was buying new today, I'd be seriously looking at mirorless options like the OP is currently using.

No one in  this thread has suggested he get a different camera body.

I agree about shooting in RAW.

Also, you may think a 64 Gb SD card is big enough, but if you're not ingesting files to a computer or storage device somewhere regularly, you'll be surprised how quick those RAW files will fill up an SD card.  Get a few SD cards, the bigger and faster the better.

I apologize if I made an off-hand comment that exaggerated what (in retrospect) amounts to a thread tangent; however there was the suggestion made to switch cameras.  As it happens, I participated in mtn’s thread from before about “upgrading from phone” cameras, and how low a price-point he was looking at ( which, iirc, was in the $250 system range) and he got the eos-m in trade instead.  Even buying used, kitting out for under $250 can be very difficult.

I’ll try to be less excitable about this in the future.

Yes, I agree, spend money on SD cards.  They’ll fill up quickly out in the woods, especially shooting RAW+JPG... but even so when shooting RAW only.

I’ve looked around briefly for an article to teach “how to shoot wide angle”... because it’s easy to “shoot wide to get it all in”, and end up with an uninteresting photo.  Does anyone have an article they’ve read that laid that out, so man can use the 18mm end of that kit lens more thoughtfully?  I’m coming up empty.

 

Thomas Heaton is a pro landscape photographer who has a YouTube channel and talks a lot about how he frames his shots and what he considers when picking a shot/location/scene. He may also have some tips/training on his website  

As for beginner photography basics, there is froknowsphoto.com who will send you 13 videos over 13 days as an intro to his guide for getting out of auto. If you don’t have time to wait for the drawn out email per day (they’re all plugs for his book/lessons, but good info) email me, I have the links saved so y’all ou can go through all of them in a few hours. 

Edit: couple of my “landscape” shots 

I think I'd look at something like the Samyang (et al) 10mm f2.8.  That coupled with the kit lens you have will cover your needs quite well.  Getting good with a manual focus lens like this, and I think you have to command aperture from the aperture ring with this lens/camera combo, will be really educational.  Buying this lens used might be wise although make sure you buy from somewhere that has a good returns policy like any lens purhase.

After that, get a tripod that you're happy to lug with you, and a cable release.  This will be useful with your kit lens as well as an ultra-wide lens.

One thing Thomas Heaton says is that you don’t need a super wide lens for landscape photography, and he actually says a long lens can get you several different shots from one location, so don’t be afraid to taka linger lens if you have it. 

I really like the 22 2.0 for a carry around lens for that camera. But the fact remains that it’s a 7D mk1 sensor which is nearly 10 years old now. That said- I use it as a 3rd body and put a full frame zoom lens with a canon adaptor on it for ceremony filming at weddings. 

I’m generally not a fan of zoom lenses for anything other than nature and landscape photography because I think people need to learn how to move themselves and eventually learn lens compression. 

Ymmv.