I never knew these were so cheap around me. Both with V8’s and even more so the V6. Since I’m a huge Roadkill fan, these seem like they have great potential for upgrades and maintenance and might make a good daily driver for 50/50 highway/backroads.
Seems like a good way for me to get my RWD fix without going the P71 route or having to go back to far in age.
Opinion: They are the ugliest of all the generations.
Good engine donors for a better looking car.
I used to see them the same way, but lowered with wide wheels to fill up the wells, a mean exhaust, and whoa Nellie, suddenly that's a cool machine.
Had z28 as dd for 9 years. I liked it. Nothing is uglier inside and out than the latest versions.
OldGray320i said:I used to see them the same way, but lowered with wide wheels to fill up the wells, a mean exhaust, and whoa Nellie, suddenly that's a cool machine.
Man the other day I saw one like that but with white lettering... man I about lost it. So much want
I’ve seen ones that the owner made ugly but I don’t see the inherent ugliness.
Pretty sure you can fit 315s on all 4 corners. That's a pretty good start.
They are not particularly fun to work on under the hood. The engine is jammed down low and under the windshield cowl, so stuff like changing sparkplugs is rough. The rear axle is the little 7.625" 10-bolt, which is insufficient for the powertrain. You can blow them up easily at stock horsepower levels, so either be gentle on taking off with sticky tires, or be prepared to install a 9" or a 12-bolt. The ergonomics on them are really wacky. They are the only car that I simultaneously feel both to tall and too short to drive. I feel like I'm trying to duck down under the top of the windshield and peer up over the top of the hood to se ahead of me. Its strange, and I don't know how GM did that. The interiors are really chintzy, the door panels frequently fall apart and the dashboards are prone to cracking.
I was heading out to dinner last night with the wife and kid. There was a guy in a green one broken down at a light. Green fluid everywhere and a flannel shirt in his hand. I wanted to get out, and help or at least push him into a nearby lot, but the wife was having none of that. I thought the car looked good in green.
*the non LS cars are cheap. the LS cars still go for stupid money.
The usual 2nd FoD Raw here in the local SCCA rallycross group drives an LS powered z28 in SR. Yes that is raw 2nd fastest of the day in a group with a healthy amount of wrx/sti's.
Are the SN95 Mustangs an either/or match up? Better? Worse? Same?
ebonyandivory said:Are the SN95 Mustangs an either/or match up? Better? Worse? Same?
Its kind of a wash. The SN95s have a less powerful motor, and its harder to make power on. Much better rear axle though. The Fox/SN-chassis is honestly not great, it's pretty archaic, the F-body suspension is much better designed. Interior materials are the same in quality, but I find the SN-95 interior more comfortable and has better ergonomics. Whereas I find the '98-'02 Camaro hideous, I find the SN95 to be insurmountably bland
The vibe that I've always gotten from people that have experienced both, is that the Camaro is the better performer, and the Mustang is the more liveable daily type car. It's all subjective really.
The LS/T56 combo in the GMs is pretty tough to beat with an NA mod motor/T45 combo in the Mustangs. The Camaro can fit more rubber, and has a superior SLA front suspension.
The Mustang typically gets higher marks for things like ergonomics, NVH, interior quality, etc. Slightly easier engine access too. The Mustang has a better rear axle.
Now, an 03-04 Mustang Cobra with the supercharged, 4 valve engine, T56, and IRS might be the best compromise but they also tend to be $15-25k vs the $5-10k of the regular GTs. Seems like the 4th Gen Camaros kind of straddle the line between Mustang GT price and Cobra price.
Previous discussion a few years ago: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/living-with-a-4th-gen-camaro/81415/page1/
There was another article turned forum thread on making them handle recently, but I cannot find it at this moment.
My user experience with a 2001 Trans Am was that the car was really good at three things.
1) looking good in my driveway
2) making beautiful sounds
3) going fast in a straight line
I conclude that the real purpose of these vehicles is a cocoon to bring the wonderful and affordable aluminum V8 with 6-speed gearbox into the world.
STM317 said:The vibe that I've always gotten from people that have experienced both, is that the Camaro is the better performer, and the Mustang is the more liveable daily type car. It's all subjective really.
The LS/T56 combo in the GMs is pretty tough to beat with an NA mod motor/T45 combo in the Mustangs. The Camaro can fit more rubber, and has a superior SLA front suspension.
The Mustang typically gets higher marks for things like ergonomics, NVH, interior quality, etc. Slightly easier engine access too. The Mustang has a better rear axle.
Now, an 03-04 Mustang Cobra with the supercharged, 4 valve engine, T56, and IRS might be the best compromise but they also tend to be $15-25k vs the $5-10k of the regular GTs. Seems like the 4th Gen Camaros kind of straddle the line between Mustang GT price and Cobra price.
In addition, the F-body has a torque arm out back, vs the quadrabind in the SN95. I've owned both, and as a Ford guy it pains me to say it, but the F-body is just a better platform for it's era. T56, more cubic inches, can fit bigger rubber, much better suspension, lower CG. And I still find them good-looking, plus you could still get T-tops in the F-body. Both interiors are 90s American cheese, with a slight edge to the Mustang. It doesn't help that the first few years of mod motor Mustangs were so lame, either. But man, the F-body is NO fun to work on. It took me a solid 12 hours to do the plugs on my 95 Z28 (LT1).
a good friend of mine still has the '98 Z28 LS1/T56 he bought new. another CDO engineer (CDO = OCD in alphabetical order) with every maintenance / service / repair record back to the window sticker. Black over grey leather, T tops, just under 150k IIRC, hasn't been his daily since getting a Golf GTI a couple years ago. very clean car. he's offered it to me at a friends and family price, but i just can't make myself want it. I'm sure he'd take $4500 for it, which is lower than any other LS1/T56 i've seen. Detroit suburbs, in case anyone's interested.
I owned a 96 Firebird Formula for several years as a weekend car. I thought it was one of the best freeway cruisers I owned. I took it out west once and could cruise 80-90mph effortlessly, change lanes or handle curves at speed with no drama. I found the seat comfortable and did not feel beat up after 10+ hours behind the wheel. Yes working on the engine is a pain but I would say that about most any car built since 1985. If it weren't for money being tight I would still own it.
I'm no expert on them, but I'd stick to the 3.8 over the 3.4 for V6 models. And if you're even considering V6's, then the LT1 cars would probably provide the best bang for the buck...In addition to looking better than the LS1 cars.
I don’t know why, but they’re bigger than I thought. Maybe i’m used to my datsun, but the camaro takes up much trailer space
What can be said? They like to rust in career-ending ways, and you can tell if hacks have been allowed to touch them by just checking the front fender to door alignment on the bottom. There's a big pad there that says "DO NOT JACK". You jack there because you're crosseyed and slow due to some unfortunate genealogy, and you bend the crud out of the fender.
People say they aren't handlers but they aren't terrible.
It was r and t or motortrend that tested an LS1 WS6 and it was higher on the skidpad and faster through the slalom than an E36 M3, and no one says those can't handle.
I owned one for 8 years, I miss it more than my C5 and I can say the C5 was better in pretty much every way.
I just bought another one and this time it's just gonna be for going fast in a straight line and doing general mullet things.
In reply to ebonyandivory :
SN95 drives worse, take it from someone who owns one. Interior is meh, but I've found it better in terms of fit-and-finish than Camaros.
Definitely easier on maintenance, but again it doesn't drive anywhere near as nice and the LT1/LS1 blow the 5.0 302 / 4.6 2V modular engine away in terms of power and modifying potential.
Opti said:
I just bought another one and this time it's just gonna be for going fast in a straight line and doing general mullet things.
You just described my motivation!
I suspect most who deride the handling have only driven cars on stock suspension with blown out old DeCarbons. A basic recipe of decent shocks, springs, and sway bars takes the ride/handling from Grandma's Buick Century to near-Corvette level, and you can pretty much fit as much rubber under them as you can afford.
I had my 98 Z28 for almost 3 years and put about 40k on it as my DD/auto x car. I'm not sure that I'll own another (at least another 4th gen), but I'd absolutely buy that car again if I had to go back in time and do it over. They're stupid fun and encourage the most juvenile of behavior. I am firmly of the belief that ever car guy needs to own at least one muscle car at some point in time for just that reason.
If you're going to buy one, definitely get a V8 car, whether LT1 or LS1. The V8 torque and noises are just too integral to the experience to skip.
Nothing much more to add except here is Adrian autocrossing mine back in 2002:
As you can see, T-tops can be a good thing with a taller helmeted driver.
And yes, he beat me in my own car that day. 
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