$1,000 Crown Vic, $19,000 in barbeque meats, win the party.
(Wait, that isn't what you asked for...but still 
)
$1,000 Crown Vic, $19,000 in barbeque meats, win the party.
(Wait, that isn't what you asked for...but still )
spacecadet said:parker said:spacecadet said:parker said:Patientzero said:
I want the driver to be the excuse.
A spec class. SSC
Except for the fact that setup, slipping alignments due to crap SPC rear LCA's all contribute to the same amount of setup prep as any other class.
There will always be setup. A spec class removes as many variables as possible. Otherwise you're left with picking the right car, the right shocks, the right tires for your car, driving style and conditions, and the list goes on. A spec class is as close as you can get to having the driver be the excuse.
If you can't setup a car to win a class that isn't SSC. you can't set one up to win SSC. thats my take.
to expand further on what I mean. SSC has camber, toe and 2 sway bars to mess with as well as shock settings.
there are plenty of roadmaps to building a competitive street class car with less variables to mess with. STS cars are a similar situation thanks to redshift and whitener racing shocks.
the SSC package is less expensive and it's all OTS parts which has its own draw. but i think the real appeal of SSC is an STX car without the expense of STX parts and a tune and the newer twin with still a competitive class.
Nothing Hoosier. That way lays ruin and pain. So the CSP Miata sounds awesome but you really have a one trick pony at that point and they tend to break......a lot.
I’m in a nationally prepped STR NC for exactly 10K right now and on a good day I’d trophy against the newer NDs.
A number of people are getting out of ND1s right now for CS as the people with money jump into ND2s. So that’s always a problem with the street classes, the newer car is almost always the way to go. But with some development (ST classes) you can have a genuinely quick car that isn’t brutal on consumables (SP).
I'm really tired of my Mustang being broke. If it just worked all the time I wouldn't be having this discussion. I would tend to lean toward a more street class than a prepared class just to keep myself out of the same situation. Something like a C5 or C6 Corvette in AS or a S197/S550 Mustang in FS are very appealing. My current car makes 480whp, weighs 3100lbs, with 295's squared, and full Maximum Motorsports suspension. It's gonna be very hard to replicate that fun factor in a street class. I feel like the Corvette's or Mustangs would get me the closest based on my budget.
Would a properly setup C5 base be competitive in AS? Is a Z06 a must? I know there is a little power difference in the LS1 vs LS6 and slightly different gearing but can't see either of those being a huge factor.
What about FS? I looked at national results and saw Mustangs and M3's at the top.
Patientzero said:I'm really tired of my Mustang being broke.
Does the same thing keep breaking, or is it just one after another due to competition use?
Sounds like you should just beef up any known weaknesses and keep the car you have.
z31maniac said:Patientzero said:I'm really tired of my Mustang being broke.
Does the same thing keep breaking, or is it just one after another due to competition use?
Sounds like you should just beef up any known weaknesses and keep the car you have.
The car is LS3 swapped. Been working out kinks for the last 2 years. I'm on my third transmission. Went from a TR-6060 to a AR5 this last time, seemed to have that issue resolved. Had a bunch of vibration issues with the driveshaft. 2 clutches. Now my Holley EFI is giving me trouble, had to send my computer into Holley for them to bench test. Also been through 3 slave cylinders, 3 master cylinders, had a rear caliper locking up, twice. Really all just bugs that are related to the swap that take time to work out. As much money as I've spent on this car I just want to drive it. Starting to get really tired of all the stupid little problems.
When the car is working properly, it is a BLAST to drive.
Patientzero said:I'm really tired of my Mustang being broke. If it just worked all the time I wouldn't be having this discussion. I would tend to lean toward a more street class than a prepared class just to keep myself out of the same situation. Something like a C5 or C6 Corvette in AS or a S197/S550 Mustang in FS are very appealing. My current car makes 480whp, weighs 3100lbs, with 295's squared, and full Maximum Motorsports suspension. It's gonna be very hard to replicate that fun factor in a street class. I feel like the Corvette's or Mustangs would get me the closest based on my budget.
Would a properly setup C5 base be competitive in AS? Is a Z06 a must? I know there is a little power difference in the LS1 vs LS6 and slightly different gearing but can't see either of those being a huge factor.
What about FS? I looked at national results and saw Mustangs and M3's at the top.
I don't know my Corvette models at all, but do notice the rather wide range of years for the AS field- https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/037/986/2017_Tire_Rack_SCCA_Solo_Nationals_Results.pdf?1510244002 (this was the dry nationals in 2017)
or file:///C:/Users/estorhok/Downloads/2018_Solo_Nationals_Official_Class_Results_Combined%20(1).pdf (the less than dry nationals in 2018)
That I can see, in 2017, there was a 15 year span of cars that ran- from 2002 to 2017. And a quick search here in Detroit has a handful of post 2002 Corvettes for sale under $20k. OR go for an earlier vette and BS.
Look at the results, copy the fastest car that satisfies what you want. Done.
Patientzero said:z31maniac said:Patientzero said:I'm really tired of my Mustang being broke.
Does the same thing keep breaking, or is it just one after another due to competition use?
Sounds like you should just beef up any known weaknesses and keep the car you have.
The car is LS3 swapped. Been working out kinks for the last 2 years. I'm on my third transmission. Went from a TR-6060 to a AR5 this last time, seemed to have that issue resolved. Had a bunch of vibration issues with the driveshaft. 2 clutches. Now my Holley EFI is giving me trouble, had to send my computer into Holley for them to bench test. Also been through 3 slave cylinders, 3 master cylinders, had a rear caliper locking up, twice. Really all just bugs that are related to the swap that take time to work out. As much money as I've spent on this car I just want to drive it. Starting to get really tired of all the stupid little problems.
When the car is working properly, it is a BLAST to drive.
I'd probably keep working to get the bugs out.
All those bugs on a purpose-built AutoX car probably isn't going to sell for much and you will lose a ton on it........not even counting your time invested in all the work.
Patientzero said:Would a properly setup C5 base be competitive in AS? Is a Z06 a must? I know there is a little power difference in the LS1 vs LS6 and slightly different gearing but can't see either of those being a huge factor.
What about FS? I looked at national results and saw Mustangs and M3's at the top.
I drove a C6 Z06 for the past 3 years. Trophied 1 of those, first year was improper setup, last year was rain. The owner had a little incident in the car and we lost it for use at the Tour and I drove a friends C5 in AS. I prefer the C5, if I had the choice I would do that. Properly setup, either car can win at Nationals. The C5 is funner I think as its thinner and slips through the slaloms easier and dances more. The C6 requires some finess to make it work.
To get the best car, get the 2nd,3rd???? year with teh 405hp. After that, get whatever you want in the Z06.
The Standard vettes slide into BS. I think its an option if you go that route, but you deal with S2000 and the RS and those which are argueably a better car for the class.
For FS, you need to look at a PP1 Mustang or an M3. You can get an E90/E92 for class, but plan on doing the bearings RIGHT AWAY which may be a couple grand there. The only issue is if they move the SS1LE over to FS and PP2 Mustang. Not sure it will happen, but they could be overdogs.
In reply to Thinkkker :
S2000 went to CS this year. But the M2, 1M, Tesla M3 Performance and the list goes on. The C5 non Z06 aren't competitive.
Patientzero said:I'm really tired of my Mustang being broke. If it just worked all the time I wouldn't be having this discussion. I would tend to lean toward a more street class than a prepared class just to keep myself out of the same situation. Something like a C5 or C6 Corvette in AS or a S197/S550 Mustang in FS are very appealing. My current car makes 480whp, weighs 3100lbs, with 295's squared, and full Maximum Motorsports suspension. It's gonna be very hard to replicate that fun factor in a street class. I feel like the Corvette's or Mustangs would get me the closest based on my budget.
Would a properly setup C5 base be competitive in AS? Is a Z06 a must? I know there is a little power difference in the LS1 vs LS6 and slightly different gearing but can't see either of those being a huge factor.
What about FS? I looked at national results and saw Mustangs and M3's at the top.
Even if you fixed the mustang it's not competitive in Cam-S so I totally get wanting to move from it.
In reply to spacecadet :
CAM-C, Brett won Nationals a few years back in a similiar but better setup car. The past couple years they have raised the min weight and they new Camaro/Mustangs have gotten light years better to the point that I don't feel the car can compete anymore. I have looked at jumping to SM but unless you have AWD you might as well stay home(which makes no sense why they are in the same class).
Patientzero said:In reply to spacecadet :
CAM-C, Brett won Nationals a few years back in a similiar but better setup car. The past couple years they have raised the min weight and they new Camaro/Mustangs have gotten light years better to the point that I don't feel the car can compete anymore. I have looked at jumping to SM but unless you have AWD you might as well stay home(which makes no sense why they are in the same class).
It's not in CAM-C at 3100lbs..
In reply to spacecadet :
Obviously I have to add weight.
Look around, I say just buy a DM car. Nothing bad happens in DM
*looks at desktop image and thinks about the custom valves for the engine I just ordered to get the thing back to running after 5 months now.....*
Patientzero said:In reply to spacecadet :
Obviously I have to add weight.
Fair enough.. Which is the crap thing about CAM-C right now. The 4th gen camaro and S197 mustang are getting ruined by the min weight rules
Quick look at the 2017 nationals results (2018 was a rainout and results are wonky)
SS- 114 seconds (Porsche GT3)
STR-113 sec in a 2016 Miata
CSP- 106 sec in an absurd and delicate Miata
SSM-105 sec in an even more absurd and cubic money Miata
CAM S-115 sec Corvette
CAM C-117 sec Camaro
So without going to ridiculous Hoosier clad levels of prep, I can't see a reasonable way to go faster on street tires than STR. The Answer continues to be......The Answer.
KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:Quick look at the 2017 nationals results (2018 was a rainout and results are wonky)
SS- 114 seconds (Porsche GT3)
STR-113 sec in a 2016 Miata
CSP- 106 sec in an absurd and delicate Miata
SSM-105 sec in an even more absurd and cubic money Miata
CAM S-115 sec Corvette
CAM C-117 sec Camaro
So without going to ridiculous Hoosier clad levels of prep, I can't see a reasonable way to go faster on street tires than STR. The Answer continues to be......The Answer.
Are the '19 NDs outpacing the '16-18 with similar levels of prep? If so, that knocks out the $20k rule to even buy a '19. Much less prep it, right?
z31maniac said:KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:Quick look at the 2017 nationals results (2018 was a rainout and results are wonky)
SS- 114 seconds (Porsche GT3)
STR-113 sec in a 2016 Miata
CSP- 106 sec in an absurd and delicate Miata
SSM-105 sec in an even more absurd and cubic money Miata
CAM S-115 sec Corvette
CAM C-117 sec Camaro
So without going to ridiculous Hoosier clad levels of prep, I can't see a reasonable way to go faster on street tires than STR. The Answer continues to be......The Answer.
Are the '19 NDs outpacing the '16-18 with similar levels of prep? If so, that knocks out the $20k rule to even buy a '19. Much less prep it, right?
The 19 doesn't appear to have the transmission problems that the ND1 had so even if the performance difference is negligible people are still jumping ship to not have to row gears anymore and get a reliable powertrain. Mazda has taken care of the ND1's but I'd hesitate to buy one used just from the PITA it might be getting mazda to deal with them as we go into the 5th year since production started and they still have had failures even on v5 transmissions.
And the ND2 is moving to STR next year so I wouldn't buy an ND1 for that class either.
$18k for a AS prepped C5Z.
Done!
Patientzero said:I'm really tired of my Mustang being broke. If it just worked all the time I wouldn't be having this discussion. I would tend to lean toward a more street class than a prepared class just to keep myself out of the same situation. Something like a C5 or C6 Corvette in AS or a S197/S550 Mustang in FS are very appealing. My current car makes 480whp, weighs 3100lbs, with 295's squared, and full Maximum Motorsports suspension. It's gonna be very hard to replicate that fun factor in a street class. I feel like the Corvette's or Mustangs would get me the closest based on my budget.
Would a properly setup C5 base be competitive in AS? Is a Z06 a must? I know there is a little power difference in the LS1 vs LS6 and slightly different gearing but can't see either of those being a huge factor.
What about FS? I looked at national results and saw Mustangs and M3's at the top.
A stock C5 is in B stock now I think. I’ve thought about an FRC with C6 Z06 shocks with magnesium wheels for BS fun.
Zzw30 with leftover $ for consumables and entry fees + some?
Probably not your thing, but a couple of national champ winning EP Civics/CRXs have sold for just a tick over $5k recently. That’s a whole lotta brutally fast, (faster than (SS/AS,) cheap to maintain car for the money.
For $11,000 I could put together a CRG Road Rebel with a TM KZ-R1 engine. It could give an advantage over the slightly older karts that have won K-Mod recently.
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