What Car: Oddball Vintage Racer Edition!

Ok gang, this should be a fun one.

What Car: Oddball Vintage Racer Edition!

So, the fam and I went to a St. Patrick's day parade and the wife really liked the fact that people drive vintage cars in parades. I have been discussing various project cars with her for years, but she never REALLY got on board with any of them. BUT, seeing people/families in their classics doing parades finally convinced her that a project car (or 2) are cool family activities, not just fun for me. Score. The caveat is that it's gotta be vintage, so out here in SoCal, that means pre-1975. The hunt is on.

I am going to do a driver/show car (i.e. car to take to activities/shows, not some crazy-ass show build) and a track car. The track car is going first, because I said so. Anyway, my budget is limited, so I can't do anything too crazy. Vintage sedan racing is pretty big out here, so I am looking at something that can start out as a track day and NASA TT/PT car and also be B-Sedan/Trans Am 2.5/IMSA RS compatible. Starting price needs to be Challenge level. After scouring CL for several weeks, here are what appear to be my options:

Opel (Kadett Rallye/Ascona/Manta) - These are pretty cool and come with a 1900cc motor. However, I can't seem to find much info on building hot 1900s. The fully built B-Sedan cars make around 100hp (or more) per litre. How feasible/expensive will that be (or even get close) on a 1900 Opel?

VW 1303 Super Beetle - This is the wife's favorite. I think I have the suspension/aero situation figured out, but again, the motor/gearbox is the limiting factor. The 1972 GCR shows the displacement at 1600. However, it also shows the Datsun 510 at 1800, and I know those guys run L20s. Thus, I am wondering if a Type 4 1.8L is legal. Also, how crazy expensive are these to build up? Is it comparable to Type 1?

Ford Pinto - Yeah. This.

AMC Gremlin - Ugly, old tech (even for 1972), heavy. But, it is fun ugly (not lame ugly) and they did have success in IMSA. Anyone have thoughts on how to do one that handles on the cheap? I kind of like this idea for some reason.

What say you, o' masters of cheap speed?

Re the Opel, Kadetts have long been raced successfully in Germany. There should be enough speed parts available to make the 1900 really get up and go, but you might have to import them from Europe.

Find an already built car. I have seen a couple old Pinto ITA cars go cheap (like sub-$2500).

Will a Datsun 510 fit your budget? Otherwise, I'd probably go with a Pinto or Mustang II.

As to the Opel, head on over to opelgt.com and ask away. While the GT looks cool, the Kadetts are by far the lightest and the Manta/Asconas handle quite a bit better.

Plenty of speed parts available, all you have to do is open your wallet. Parts prices are in line with similar vintage British stuff.

Serious advantage goes to the '75 Mantas for the EFI if you're stuck in a stock class. Otherwise pretty much any racing org allows for the direct bolt on Weber swap, and that seems to cap you out in the sub 160hp range, which is about all you'll get the rear end to handle anyway. Keep in mind, though, that a race prepped Kadett 1.9L would be well under 1700#, even with their full interior and the works they weren't over 1900#.

Pintos are a logical choice, but my God are they ugly. And the wife doesn't like them. Not that it REALLY matters for the track car, but still.

510s and 2002s are pretty expensive now. I think the cheapest, clapped out, incomplete (missing minor things, like the engine) one I found was $3500.

I like the Opel, and it is pretty open in regards to FI/carbs, as long as it was available before the vehicle's production ended (or 1979, whichever came first). The weight of the car in comp spec is 1lb/cc. Thus, any 1900 Opel will be 1900 lbs. I don't need to be (and really, can't afford to be) top dog, I just want to avoid being a rolling chicane and not spend my kids' college funds in the process.

Celica, Datsun B210, early Scirocco, Corvair, Ford Capri, Dodge/Mitsubishi Colt

I'd personally go for the Pinto, preferably a 1971-74 2.0 car. There's a ton of German 2.0 speed stuff and know how thanks to Formula Ford, but if you happen to find a 74-75 2.3 Lima car there's even more stuff available for it. With the right paint they aren't so ugly.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/4425062063.html

The Chevette came out in 75 I think. Did they ever road race them? They should.....

If you can belive it, I had a Alfa GT Jr that I was going to make into a challage car then into a vintage race car about a decade ago. Alas, I found a IT car that I thought would be easier to go racing with. Turned out not to be really true, as it took a TON of work to get that car right, and it actually burned me out (So I'm trying to sell a 74 GTV race car). So you CAN find one of the more popular cars for cheap AND just because a car has been raced does not make it easier to be a race car....

Enough of the Alfa....

You are missing one of more popular obscure cars here- Volvo 122. I just looked into my Trans-Am book and they raced the entire time. Those pop up all of the time, look cool, and are modern enough.

As for making a challenge/vintage racer- since the racing engines are one of the more expensive aspects of racing, I would suggest doing the chassis as close to vintage as possible, but do a non-modify engine swap- perhaps a turbo, or a more modern engine. As long as it fits without mods.

Good luck with it!!

On the VW: the type 4 is technically a completely different motor than the type 1 (although they should both bolt to the same gearbox) On that basis I would doubt it is an allowed swap.

The T4 is a stronger motor all around but $ for $ the T1 will be a cheaper motor to build based purely on mass production of parts.

Saab 96.

GTwannaB wrote: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/4425062063.html

Oh, wow. DO EEEET!

The Chevette came out in 1975 as a 1976 model, dunno if it's legal for that class.

Does your whole fam need to fit in it?

If so a Morris Minor may do well for you- front and back seats and you can hop up the 1275 engine for not much money.

You can also find decent MGB GT's for not much money, they kind of have a back seat. I can't speak to building the engine though as I don't know much about them.

Sorry, I like British cars...

In reply to Geekspeed:

I'd take a Vega over a Pinto. They did come out with a V8 powered Gremlin.

Curmudgeon wrote:

GTwannaB wrote: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/4425062063.html

Oh, wow. DO EEEET!

I wish I had not looked at that. I have always wanted one of those.

Let's see. $3500 + cross country shipping + cost of divorce = profit??

Thanks for the replies, gang. I have a few cars that I am gonna look at, and your input will certainly help. Here is what I am going to see:

72 Pinto 2.0 4spd - asking $2300

68 Opel Kadett Rallye - asking $2500

64 Volvo 122 - asking $1800, thanks for the suggestion, alfadriver.

I'll also keep my eyes out for a 2.0 Capri. I'll keep you all posted.

In reply to TR8owner:

I thought about a Vega, but I figured the engine would melt the first time I took it to Willow Springs.

I like the idea of the opel - I may be reading things into this - are you thinking hpde - working up to w2w racing and by then have your car built for vintage? For that I would say buy the best condition kadett or manta you can find and get it up to decent street performace - go from there. If you're all-in for vintage, the fast and cheaper way is finding an already built car. Even with an already built car you're likely to run into things like tired engines, expiring fuel and safety tags... There's also a pretty wide gap in expenses for running in the front vs anywhere else (for my TR4 - front-runners spend 10k+ on engines that might, but probably won't, last a season. Mid-packers can do a 3k engine that will last 4 seasons with a few bearing changes.

I like the saab 96 idea.. Sonnet too if you can find one. those ended production 1974. How about a Volvo Amazon?

As for using A type 4 in a bug.. make sure you get the Porsche version. They made more HP than the bus one. I am not sure how reliable it would be.. but I have seen the Type 1 engine stroked and bored to 2.4l..

Geekspeed wrote: Thanks for the replies, gang. I have a few cars that I am gonna look at, and your input will certainly help. Here is what I am going to see: 72 Pinto 2.0 4spd - asking $2300 68 Opel Kadett Rallye - asking $2500 64 Volvo 122 - asking $1800, thanks for the suggestion, alfadriver. I'll also keep my eyes out for a 2.0 Capri. I'll keep you all posted.

Do post the review of all 3 of them (or more, as it may turn out). Very interesting process.

oldtin wrote: I like the idea of the opel - I may be reading things into this - are you thinking hpde - working up to w2w racing and by then have your car built for vintage?

DING DING DING! This is what I am planning to do. I like the building and modifying process, and I want to get my kiddos involved in it.

I am fine with a mid-pack level car. I don't have the coin to do anything more. Besides, being in the pack means more people to race with.

In reply to alfadriver:

Will do. I am going to keep my eyes peeled on CL and maybe add some more into the mix.

You want oddball? How about a Mercedes 450SLC coupe? The suspension is very sophisticated (double wishbones all around) and they handle surprisingly well with the right dampers. Lots of upgrade parts available from later 560SL models and other Benzes, including this like 4-piston Brembos.

Lower it and add rivet-on flares like the old rally cars:

If you want to get really fancy, do it up as the AMG-built Lufthansa road racer: