Geekspeed wrote: Ok, adding 200sx to the list. That thing is so odd, it is awesome.
Yeah, Dad raced one in ITB with the L20B and dogleg 5-speed. It had strut front suspension and a solid axle in the rear with looks only a mother could love. Stout little motor and a decent chassis to work with. With bubble flares and airdam and proper ride height, they start to look the business:
OK, not SoCal but you can drive this home: 1975 Fiat 128
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/4432433404.html
That's the first time I've felt anything remotely resembling rust over a 450 SL or any car of that generation. Who'd have thought?!
BMW 2002 has a strong vintage following and there are a bunch of them on the west coast.
The 450SLC roadrace/rally cars are REDONK. Too cool. 
Geekspeed wrote: Ok gang, this should be a fun one. What Car: Oddball Vintage Racer Edition! So, the fam and I went to a St. Patrick's day parade and the wife really liked the fact that people drive vintage cars in parades. I have been discussing various project cars with her for years, but she never REALLY got on board with any of them. BUT, seeing people/families in their classics doing parades finally convinced her that a project car (or 2) are cool family activities, not just fun for me. Score. The caveat is that it's gotta be vintage, so out here in SoCal, that means pre-1975. The hunt is on. I am going to do a driver/show car (i.e. car to take to activities/shows, not some crazy-ass show build) and a track car. The track car is going first, because I said so. Anyway, my budget is limited, so I can't do anything too crazy. Vintage sedan racing is pretty big out here, so I am looking at something that can start out as a track day and NASA TT/PT car and also be B-Sedan/Trans Am 2.5/IMSA RS compatible. Starting price needs to be Challenge level. After scouring CL for several weeks, here are what appear to be my options: Opel (Kadett Rallye/Ascona/Manta) - These are pretty cool and come with a 1900cc motor. However, I can't seem to find much info on building hot 1900s. The fully built B-Sedan cars make around 100hp (or more) per litre. How feasible/expensive will that be (or even get close) on a 1900 Opel? VW 1303 Super Beetle - This is the wife's favorite. I think I have the suspension/aero situation figured out, but again, the motor/gearbox is the limiting factor. The 1972 GCR shows the displacement at 1600. However, it also shows the Datsun 510 at 1800, and I know those guys run L20s. Thus, I am wondering if a Type 4 1.8L is legal. Also, how crazy expensive are these to build up? Is it comparable to Type 1? Ford Pinto - Yeah. This. AMC Gremlin - Ugly, old tech (even for 1972), heavy. But, it is fun ugly (not lame ugly) and they did have success in IMSA. Anyone have thoughts on how to do one that handles on the cheap? I kind of like this idea for some reason. What say you, o' masters of cheap speed?
Okay, if you're seriously willing to look at Gremlins, then I say a V8 Hornet with a 3-speed manual is on your list, too:
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/cto/4431854155.html
It's only 2/3 Challenge price, too.
Since 1200's were mentioned I will chime in.
First as Geekspeed mentioned Datsuns are becoming pricey, they are very competitive but people are spending some serious dollars. I use my 1200 for track days as well as racing it with VARA (SoCal vintage group). You still find 1200's at decent prices, you can find lots of bargain hope up information on datsun1200.com as well as technical support. If you buy everything used, do your own work you can put a car on track (vintage legal) for $3500-$4500 but it will not be super competitive at first. At that price point you will have a car prepped to ITC level. Over the next season or two you can add bits as the come up for sale. Just some examples, the stock H145 rear end is only good for about the 80-85hp range (90-100 ft lbs torque) H145 LSD are $600-$900, upgrading to a H165 or H190 could cost $1000 - $1300. Cams can be had for under $100, Anti Sway bars are still available, and Koni rear shocks and Koni wet inserts are still fairly easily found.
Just as a comparison, my 1200 with the 1171cc motor makes 80HP at the wheels (1830lbs with me in it, I'm 140lbs) with the 1508cc engine it's about 100hp at the wheels. I cleaned up the ports myself, got lucky and found a set of Keihin 39mm FCR Flat Slide carbs for $250 with manifold. I notched the tubes for the Autopower cage and a friend welded the cage (we've added tubing to it) this cost me $900, fuel cell $300, complete front suspension including crossmember bought used in 1994 for $1100, rear suspension Nismo springs Koni dampers with anti tramp bars (note I bought a parts car took what I needed sold the rest ) $0, roadster H190 LSD 4.38 diff $1300 (ouch), 4 speed close ratio box $600. The 1508cc motor was $1560 not including the cylinder GX head which has $475 in it, header was $100. The 1171cc motor after I freshen it up will be around 90HP and cost is $1350. Race seat found one for $150, fire system was $285, then throw in $300 in misc bits, I also buy used race tires (Hoosier Vintage TDs) at $240 a set. So all in $8000, to get it uber competitive would take another $1000 in the motor and $1500 or so for a 5 speed close ratio box after I sell the 4 speed. So 10K easy and the car would then need constant work. I already spin the motor to 8000 RPM's, full race engine go over 9000 but only have about a 6hr engine life. Due note I have had the 1200 for 30 years so the cost have been spread out. I've average about $1800 a year since we turned it into a race car in 1989, that includes gas, tires entry fees registration for the tow vehicle etc. I keep every receipt.
I like the 200SX as they are not sought after so much and some of the parts are still cheap, the same for B210's not sought after so the prices are low and that will help pay for the pricey bits.
The Pinto is also a good pick, loads of parts from Mustang II and other Ford products including the engines. There was a Pinto running at the last VARA event................beating folks with a Pinto could be fun.
Once upon a time I had a Volvo 140 rally car and like those as well.
Tom
There is an active GT Pinto series out here near DC with SCCA. Only drawback I have heard is that the transmission with the "better" gear ratios are getting hard to find. Aside from that, rumor has it that they are as trusty as a hammer.
racerdave600 wrote: Last and my favorite is a Fiat 128. They make absolutely fantastic race cars and share a similar drive train to the X1/9.
it's just an X1/9 with 4 reverse gears
Also just one more option. Using the similar Fiat running gear. They Yugo GV could be a fun, oddball car that will turn heads.
If you were open to 1978 model years, you could look for an early PORSCHE 924. They can be had for very reasonable money, handle really well and look pretty good in my opinion. But hey I am biased.
Mike Kirby
Geekspeed wrote: I may just have to look at American pony cars, like Keith said. Maybe not a Mustang, (since, you know, apparently I am automotive enthusiast hipster, but an old Dart or Falcon. The only REAL issue I see with that, is that these things in vintage racing rock something in the neighborhood of 400hp, and that is kinda scary...
You could build a tribute to one of the more obscure Group 44 cars that way:
(That's a '66 Dart, in case you were wondering; the that trim level is called a Dart 270, although it has nothing to do with what engine size it has.)
Mike924 wrote: Also just one more option. Using the similar Fiat running gear. They Yugo GV could be a fun, oddball car that will turn heads. If you were open to 1978 model years, you could look for an early PORSCHE 924. They can be had for very reasonable money, handle really well and look pretty good in my opinion. But hey I am biased.
I even have a 79 924 that has been stripped inside and is running fiberglass Carrera GT fiberglass with 944 fiberglass rear quarters, 924 Turbo/944 4-wheel discs, MegaSquirt with DCOE-style ITBs, etc. that I'm looking to sell at some point in the not too distant future. It is currently street legal here in Portland (has a new cat, etc.) with a clear title and has been rebuilt from the ground up with a piss poor attempt at body work and some electrical issues I've not sorted out yet due to a lack of time.
Check out the build thread on it here:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/my-79-porsche-924-journey/56036/page1/
My Pbucket account is out of bandwidth :/ but it should be back next week.
mad_machine wrote:racerdave600 wrote: Last and my favorite is a Fiat 128. They make absolutely fantastic race cars and share a similar drive train to the X1/9.it's just an X1/9 with 4 reverse gears
True! I spent years racing X1/9s and the first 128 I drove was an eye opener. They weight what, 200 to 300 pounds less in race trim? It felt like a rocket in comparison and I can't think of another FWD car, even my Cooper S, that felt as good on track. These vastly underrated. Not the best looking car however.
Saab 99?
MadScientistMatt wrote:Geekspeed wrote: I may just have to look at American pony cars, like Keith said. Maybe not a Mustang, (since, you know, apparently I am automotive enthusiast hipster, but an old Dart or Falcon. The only REAL issue I see with that, is that these things in vintage racing rock something in the neighborhood of 400hp, and that is kinda scary...You could build a tribute to one of the more obscure Group 44 cars that way:
I LOVE the vent windows cranked open in that shot...
http://www.teamstarfish.com/the_car.html
The Dart's cousin.
The toughest thing to get is the FIA papers on an odd ball car.
Just as a warning, Most vintage racing is more expensive especially when you are talking odd ball stuff.
For his area Geekspeed would likely run with VARA and they would accept a 924, might end up in a catch all class but it still could run.
Now I was taking with my fabricator pal and he is a fan of oddball cars, he drives a Pinto wagon as a daily. All of the Mustang II upgrades are bolts ons, also the v6 pintos had stiffer front springs and bigger sway bars, the Ford 8" rear end will bolt in. Also depending on which motor you use a T5 tranny will bolt up.
So you know my vote...........Pinto Wagon,if you can find the country squire (wood decal) that would be even more oddball.
Tom
Ok I just checked Craigslist , Pinto country squire wagon in Covina, it even has a 4 speed..........$2200, odd ball low price.
Leave it alone, show up, and run the piss out if it.
1971 Chevrolet Nova SS ~ Los Angeles
MadScientistMatt wrote:Geekspeed wrote: I may just have to look at American pony cars, like Keith said. Maybe not a Mustang, (since, you know, apparently I am automotive enthusiast hipster, but an old Dart or Falcon. The only REAL issue I see with that, is that these things in vintage racing rock something in the neighborhood of 400hp, and that is kinda scary...You could build a tribute to one of the more obscure Group 44 cars that way:
1965 Ford Ranchero - $2200 (Huntington Park)
Saab Sonnet?
Ok, you guys are too much help. lol.
Question regarding the A-Sedan type cars (Dart, Barracuda, Nova, etc.). If I focus on suspension and brakes, but leave the engine alone, how would it compare to a typical momentum car? I think I would prefer to start out with a lower HP/weight ratio car.
I am shying away from Porsches due to the fact that I believe that there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche. 
I also found a Fiat 131 Mirafiori for sale. Does anyone have thoughts on that? It is a '75 model and has the 1800cc motor and 5spd. The front suspension is Mac struts and the rear is a live axle with a panhard bar. I am not thinking of doing the Abarth conversion, so no need to take that into consideration.
Ok, here is the list of cars I am considering. Of course, it is now LONGER, not shorter, but I kind of expected that.
Pinto
Saab 99
Saab Sonett
Dodge Dart (64-66)
Capri
Fiat 128
Fiat 131
Fiat 124
Datsun 210
Volvo 122 or 142
Opel 1900
Oh, and did someone say Pinto Squire Wagon?
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/cto/4434974360.html
Geekspeed wrote: Ok, you guys are too much help. lol. Question regarding the A-Sedan type cars (Dart, Barracuda, Nova, etc.). If I focus on suspension and brakes, but leave the engine alone, how would it compare to a typical momentum car? I think I would prefer to start out with a lower HP/weight ratio car. I am shying away from Porsches due to the fact that I believe that there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche.
I think the 924/944 are much cheaper to run than a comparable 911 and you should think of them as closer to a 914 or a RWD VW or Audi Coupe since they borrow more parts from that world than they do from the Porsche world. The 944 is still running in ITS and various Spec 944 race classes (a close friend has a Spec944 that is still street legal and passes the tailpipe emissions test here). 924's are still legal for ITB and are competitive there. The 924 is mostly VW underneath (seriously, Rabbit front suspension, super beetle rear, damned tough Audi engine, Porsche transaxle). Biggest issues with the 924 are CIS problems and electrical issues, both easily solved on a race car with webers and a stripped electrical system. Just don't buy a complete beater and you'll be streets ahead.
Here's a video of some 924's running in the 1980 SCCA SSA National Race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COb501doIBA
and yes I am highly biased :)
The Volvo 122s are tough as nails, have decent suspension geometry for a live axle car (4 link with panhard in the back, upper/lower A arm front), engines that are surprisingly gutsy and reliable, and CHEAP. If you're willing to look at a 4 door model, a decent runner can be had for around 1k. And there's only about a 60 pound weight penalty over the 2 door.
Late 67 and 68 models had slightly improved brakes and rear suspension. Anything 64 and later should have disc brakes up front.
IIRC the 142 went to a strut front end, as opposed to the double wishbone on the 122. Otherwise, also a good choice- and even cheaper.
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