What car would you...

Easy. later model XJ Cherokee.
Cheap. Simple. Not uncommon in Mex, CA and SA. Can run on lower octane fuels. ...although unit body still tough as nails

Add a big custom roof-rack and go. Don't forget though that you cannot cross the Darien Gap between Panama and Colombia. It is not currently passable. You'll have to ferry his section

In reply to a401cj:

Yes, I know about the Darien gap.:Ferries are in order. It seems that 2.7m is the height restriction (8'6" for my American friends). I guess I have to add another criteria!

As for VWs, I don't fancy a bus, mainly because I doubt I can sell the idea to my co-travellers. I can see it now, "you're a hippie" and "there's no way"... And 4 people for long distance travels in a bug?

Toyota trucks or SUVs, in my "purchase range" at least are several thousand dollars over budget in "repairable" condition. By this I mean Tacoma's, 4Runners and LandCruisers. Keep the suggestions coming!

Is P71 the answer here?
Retired Police version of a Ford Crown Vic. Stout and reliable with pickup truck simplicity. Typically well maintained and inexpensive to buy.

well if you won't go with a hippie van how about: Toyota dolphin

Toyota 4X4 Van This guy wants too much for this particular heap but you get the idea...

In reply to Capt Slow:

I like that van! only thing similar in my area is this:

http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-1994-Toyota-Estima-Lucida-Japanese-4x4-van-W0QQAdIdZ184008155

Fits the bill: roomy, reliable, diesel, 4wd is nice... just SLIGHTLY over budget...

jrw1621 wrote: Is P71 the answer here? Retired Police version of a Ford Crown Vic. Stout and reliable with pickup truck simplicity. Typically well maintained and inexpensive to buy.

Pre-runner build a P71

In reply to neon4891:

What do you mean by that? I'm not clued in to the whole P71 thing yet. I know what they are, whats pre-runner build?

I spent some time in the mountains of Ecuador, and seriously every other car was a sidekick/vitara/tracker (sold as a chevrolet grand vitara, go figure). I can imagine this means parts are easy to find, and GM has a strong presence in S. America in general.

My girlfriend has a '98 sidekick. It is plenty capable on/off road, and they get pretty good mileage for what they are. May want to upgrade brakes for those Andean passes (they are truly terrifying), but other than that throw a tire on the roof and go!

hamburglar wrote: In reply to neon4891: What do you mean by that? I'm not clued in to the whole P71 thing yet. I know what they are, whats pre-runner build?

I believe the term pre-runner for a trucks comes from the Baja offroad truck race where the teams build from stock trucks a version capable of making a practice run (or pre-run) the event.
In generic terms a prerunner truck is 2wd and has exagerated front suspension height and travel capabilities.
Samples: http://www.prerunnermaniac.com/s/Prerunners.php

I suggested that a Crown Vic would provide pickup truck simplicity. That statement was expanded on and the prerunner idea suggested that you lift the suspension and instal agressive tires.

Specifically, the P71 designation is Ford factory code for Crown Vics loaded with the police package. Many upgrades like better brakes, better cooling, better alternators and improved suspension over the typical consumer version.
Sample from your area: http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-2001-Ford-Crown-Victoria-P71-W0QQAdIdZ179278206
Added benifit: If done right, a vehicle like this may keep you away from unwanted attention with a loosly implied notion of authority.

EricM wrote: Oh and I vote for a turbo Diesel. Fuel econimy and turbo to take care of the thin air in the mountains.

Hmm good point. I recommended against a turbo earlier due to concerns about reliability, but thin air could be an issue too.

Well... as much as i like turbos, i dont think its necessary even for the altitude. Refer to the Top Gear episode as linked where all the vehicles managed to climb up to 17000 ft despite two of them running 35" (or bigger)? tires on STOCK GEARs in underpowered Suv's and still made it.

However, i WOULD say fuel injection would be a MAJOR benefit at altitude because they reference ambient pressure periodically to re-tune themselves for altitude. Id be more worried about a carb than a turbo as leaving me stranded at 17000 ft, but if i had the option id go non-turbo EFI or a diesel which doesnt particularly care about air metering.

300td.org

you are welcome

P71 ohh god. try to find parts for those in La Paz.

In reply to ignorant:

I was waiting for somebody to show that picture! I've spotted a couple gas wagons, and many many diesel sedans in my area... Having a look at them this weekend.

Another vote against carbed gas motors I take it then?

This. Mid 80's Suburban 4wd 6.2L diesel. 20-24mpg highway, offroadability, super simple, super durable. Bring lots of fuel filters. 40 gallon tank makes for long range and enough room inside to sleep comfortably.

Comfort option to the P71, 95 to 97 Lincoln Town Car, simple to work on, reliable, comfort for 4, loads of trunk space, bigger tires and replace air bags with rear springs, (I would use P71 spring all around)

These are full framed vehicles.

For either the spare parts list is simple, alternator, fuel filter, plugs, wires, fix any window issues prior to leaving (simple fix ask me), new belts, hoses,

Check pan for rust prior, check frame behind front suspension prior to purchase.

I have this book and they have a few souls that traveled the same trip in VW campers. They even painted the map on the side of the vanagon.

Of course, VW parts might have been easier back in the 1960's.

im voting against carbed gas motors for sure if thats what you were asking.

How common are k-cars down there?? a tbi k-car is about as reliable as it gets in my opinion, and very cheap. Carry a few spare sensors and some hand tools and you're good to go, they're super easy to work on.

They get 25-30 mpg on a 14 gallon tank, have pretty good ground clearance and are very sturdy suspension wise for how light they are. Caravans have the same, with the added coolness of being able to sleep in it. My tbi/5spd caravan averaged 27 mpg. Although i wouldnt recommend a tbi/auto caravan for power/weight reasons.. but its not any worse than a diesel benz or vw bus.

Bobzilla wrote: This. Mid 80's Suburban 4wd 6.2L diesel. 20-24mpg highway, offroadability, super simple, super durable. Bring lots of fuel filters. 40 gallon tank makes for long range and enough room inside to sleep comfortably.

a naturally aspirated diesel for a vehicle that will see altitude? really? Take it over eisenhower tunnel and then we'll talk.

Find parts for that pile in LaPaz... really... come on.

The servicability of average american vehicles, outside of america, is poor. I would recommend severely against it..

A Cherokee, Wrangler, CJ, FSJ, Range Rover Classic, Discovery, Series 1/2/3, Defender, Bronco, Scout, G-Wagen, Hardbody, K5 Blazer or Samurai would all be extremely capable of making the trip. But, I would take something that you could source parts easily for. Things are going to break. Of course you'll take spare parts, but odds are that you will need something that you don't have. Toyota has a great presence in a lot of countries. Land Rovers were traditionally popular in former English colonies because of England's presence, but that's been overshadowed largely by Toyota too. And that's not an issue in this half of the world we're talking about. A Toyota 4Runner/early pickup, or any Land Cruiser 80-series and older would do excellently. And you'd probably find parts easier. For Toyota, older trucks are better. Forget Tacomas; you're gonna want the earlier trucks. The live-axle ones. They do hold their value, but look for one of those. Or a Land Cruiser, 40-series, 70-series, or 80-series.

That w123 wagon is pretty awesome, that would be high on my list for a road trip/expidition vehicle if 4wd and grond cleanance wasnt needed.

I haven't read the whole post carefully and I know you want a diesel but I think a Subaru wagon like an Outback or Forester would be a good choice.

I fully agree with all of the above comments on spare parts. I do count on having breakages, or having to do an oil change in the middle of nowhere. That to me is part of the fun and the adventure.

If you can't understand why it's an attractive prospect to drive to remote or unfamiliar places and having to overcome issues to achieve an ultimate goal, then I can't explain it to you. It's satisfying to be able to resolve problems as they occur and press on. I'm envisioning a modern day expedition more than just a roadtrip. Maybe I have a rosy view of the world, but it's my own!

Anyhow, I'm still not sold on needing a truck to do this, can you truck folks justify your choice of a truck vs a car. Before you do, I said that 4wd isn't a necessity but "increased" ground clearance is a welcome bonus.

What does a truck have to offer that's a clear advantage here? space? I'm not sleeping in the car, and I need only 4 seats. Hell my Echo has 4 seats and is fairly spacious for what it is, passenger wise (not luggage wise though). Downsides of truck vs car include worse fuel economy, typically more uncomfortable ride on the road (say landcruiser vs benz, for argument's sake).

I'm digging the turbo diesel merc wagon idea.

If you are not doing any real offroading then a 4x4 will only hurt your fuel economy.

Look at 300td.org That guy put armor under the merc and used new coils to lift the wagon higher. You probably could accomplish the same with some cheap gabriel air shocks.

Or look at this guy http://dangrec.com/ <--- he's driving a jeep down the same road.

Do some searches at expeditionportal.com. The "expeditions in progress" sub-forum has many great stories of folks going down the same road. I'd try to get their advice rather than a bunch of armchair wannabe's like us...

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31833&highlight=pan+american+highway <--- really good stuff there.

http://www.drivetosouthamerica.com/index.html <-- and there too. That guy is reporting there are no more ferries across the darien gap and you need to ship your car in a container.

hamburglar wrote: I fully agree with all of the above comments on spare parts. I do count on having breakages, or having to do an oil change in the middle of nowhere. That to me is part of the fun and the adventure.

Oh I got what you're saying. I knew you figured on breakage. That's part of the whole deal. I'm just saying you're going to want something that is common in that part of the world so that when breakages do occur, you'll be able to find the parts for it.

If you don't venture much off road, you will probably be fine with a car.

I think most would be disapointed to know that the roads are pretty much paved all the way to Patagonia. This is going to be more akin to driving to alaska than the Paris Dakar that most are imagining. I like the one about having to drive through rivers.

If this were me, I would be looking for a 5 year old Toyota Camry and outfit it with the most bulletproof tires you can find. You will be riding in comfort and the cars are tough. Doing this is a Landie would be a mashochistic endevour!

What about the fuel concerns you? Dirt? Water? Low Octane? A fuel injected car with god filters will deal with all that.

Any of your team speak spanish? As to the import duty, unless you have posted a bond to get the car in the country, how are they going to collect? Maybe it is a part of your exit visa? Worth checking out. If nothing else, cars do occasionally combust or get stolen and the proper report can be made.

Should be quite the adventure.