What happens when you pay someone to work on your car

I've done all my own work since the late 70s. I'm careful and methodical, and think I do pretty good work. Unfortunately, time and weather didn't cooperate and I turned to a well regarded local independant BMW mechanic to do the work I didn't have finished in time for this season's early events. He has very good reveiws among the BMW types, and is a racer and track day instructor.

The Tuesday before a 2 day NASA HPDE at VIR I dropped the car at the shop in the morning. In the car were all the necessary parts except a few OEM bits like bushings. I provided a list of what parts I brought, and all the work to be performed, much of which overlapped.

What I wanted was: Remove exhaust system at headers. Remove driveshaft. Drop diff and subframe. replace diff and Powerflex subframe bushings. Replace upper and lower outer control arm balljoints. Replace upper inner control arm bushings. Install adjustable lower control arms (inner bushings already installed) Install AL flywheel-Clutchmasters clutch+p-plate. Install rear main seal while there. Install new center bearing and Guibo when reinstalling Install front control arms w/ Powerflex bushings Change trans-diff-engine fluids Swap race pads in, bleed brakes enough for fresh fluid in the calipers. Install Zionsville race cooling system Install Stewart water pump, leave mechanical fan off Install underdrive pulleys Wire SPAL double relay 2-speed fan harness Mount 4 direzzas Align to specs and set cross weight.

This is a long list, but much of the work overlaps. If I had a lift at my disposal and all the special bushing pullers and pushers, I'd expect 2 full days should get it done.

Wednesday I called the shop to verify it was still on schedule; if it wasn't going to be done, I could sell my slot for the event, but the window to do that closed Wednesday evening. Getting a straight answer wasn't easy, but the said it'd be done. Thursday came and went. Not done yet.

Friday morning, they were saying lunchtime; at noon it was 2, then 3 then 4 then 5...

Finally at 7PM I'm standing in the shop while the owner is wrapping his huge abomination of wiring up in 10 feet of harbor freight split-sheath, a roll of electrical tape and 50 zip ties. He test drives the car, and his counter guy rings up the ticket.

It's $5100.00. That's 36% the original purchase price of the car. I said "wait...that can't be right..." write up guy allowed they "let me slide on a bunch of stuff"

There was no estimate provided and no breakdown of labor time by job. I extrapolated about 46 hours of billed labor. The car was in their shop during business hours less than that amount of time by 10 hours.

At this juncture, I'm supposed to be 75 miles into a 240 mile trip into rural Virginia, and it's not getting any earlier. I pay the bill, and collect the car.

The instant I try the clutch I about crap myself. It's light as a feather, like a couple pounds, and doesn't disengage til it's pressed firmly on the floor. It feels broken.

BTW, the owner said he had the trans "in and out 3 times" because the "slave cylinder blew up" when he depressed the pedal. I got this news on the phone as a reasone why the car would be late. I inquired whether he'd see the bold face warning on the installation instructions advising that the friction disc installs ~springs toward flywheel~ reverse to common oem BMW friction discs...He repeated this several times 'til he eventually tried that...

I drove back and told the guy "I've only installed maybe a dozen clutches in cars, but this simply feels wrong". He said it would be fine in a few miles.

I went home. It was nearly impossible to select first gear at a stop light, but it did improve with use, so I took secondary roads home and to VIR, and the time I was there it felt odd but better.

Since then I've had to replace the upper fuse box housing under the hood which he broke connection block mounting tabs off of, and completely remove and re-do the fan wiring so it would both work, look tidy, and not set the car on fire.

Then the power steering pump sh1t the bed 2 days ago. He replaced the line set to fix a weep/leak, installed the underdrive pulley, and refilled the system w/ Redline D4 ATF.

I called to discuss and like my discussion about the laughably poor wiring job, he showed a complete lack of concern.

I bought a remanufactured OEM pump which I'll do myself, correctly in about 2 hours. This whole deal is a lesson learned.

Here's a sad fact: I could have bought a 4 post lift and paid myself to take a week off work, and it would have been less expensive, and I wouldn't be wondering what effect it has when you destroy 2 slave cylinders dead-loading a backwards-installed friction disc.

Grrrrrrrrrrr.

i wuld find somoene next time and then look aorund thier show a few times before doing anything, if nothing else i would use some one from the magazine next time fo one of the adverts if needed. i have a couple of times that the poeple working on my car where asshats.one thing i look for if if they under stand about cars and if they have races cars around. thats how i found one guy i use, plus all the olds cars that where parked out front at time helped.

sorry to hear about that. its sounds like in this case would have better off going though the steelership meybe.

That's a heck of a lot of work but it sounds like you got shafted. I'd try to get some money back as well as posting in the appropriate BMW forums about your experience.

My "trusted shop" broke my ABS sensor, dented my slotted/drilled rotor, hung the caliper by the hose, and didn't clean a damn thing doing a simple axle seal/axle swap. Never again!

I'm going into a 2 year period where I won't have tools or my own shop.. I think the civic needs a timing belt.. Hopefully, my dads trusted shop dosen't mess up this bad.

Sorry man. Thats rough.. Good race shops are very hard to find.

Trust no one. I look at all repair shops like a crap filled diaper: just hope it doesn't burst open on the way to the dumpster.

motomoron wrote: I turned to a well regarded local independant BMW mechanic to do the work I didn't have finished in time for this season's early events. He has very good reveiws among the BMW types, and is a racer and track day instructor.

I really feel for you. Ouch! If it was me I would take it personally and stew for a couple of years.

With the exception of warranty work, I would never allow anyone to work on my car, especially if its that kind of work. The quality of workmanship I have seen in the past has been nothing short of brutal. I would ask for a substantial amount of my money back, or take them to small claims court.

I would be raising holy hell, both for the size of the initial bill (although without an estimate, that's kinda tough) and for the quality of the work performed. I'm not a good customer :)

I recently had some repair work done on my trailer - I simply didn't have the time, and I know they have some special quirks. Not only did the shop contact me when they found a problem and was able to explain exactly what we were looking at, the final bill came to about $100 less than the estimate. Not all shops are crooks.

I would be challenging them in small claims court, there is no way they can charge you for hours they weren't open. Fight them they are already discredited by this fraudulent charge.

Holy crap. I would be pretty livid if I were you. I would talk to the owner before taking him to court or badmouthing him. At least then you gave him a chance to make it better.

put the shops name up.. then tell them you'll remove it when they fix your crap

It's really sad that it is so hard to find good, quality workmanship at a good price anymore. Not just auto mechanics but everything. They do a crappy job then gouge you on the price. It's really disgusting. I feel for you, I really do.

You have a case in small claims court. Do your homework and don't let them steal your hard earned money.

ignorant wrote: put the shops name up.. then tell them you'll remove it when they fix your crap

X2

aussiesmg wrote: I would be challenging them in small claims court, there is no way they can charge you for hours they weren't open. Fight them they are already discredited by this fraudulent charge.

What if there was more than one mechanic working on the car? Does an hourly rate cover man hours or shop hours? I actually have no idea.

If it was a flat rate job, you could easily do "more" work than you had time for, but it sounds as if this sort of job would be on the clock.

I feel your pain, but hopefully this can be a lesson for you and everyone else to not rush into things. Dropping off a car with a short deadline and a list like that is like giving your credit card to a crackhead. Not saying its right but a shady owner will take advantage of you every time, especially if its a slow month. ALWAYS get an estimate IN WRITING! I know you were in a hurry but a 10 minute conversation could have saved you several thousand dollars. You would either have gotten a fair price or realized you were about to be bent over and skipped the event. In hindsight which would you rather have done: lost your entry fee or what you paid plus what you'll pay in the future in time and money to undo all the damage done to the car? Small claims is a good start. Reporting him to the BBB, chamber of commerce, ASE (if its an ASE shop) etc. can't hurt either.

If it was a flat rate job, you could easily do "more" work than you had time for, but it sounds as if this sort of job would be on the clock.

If they charged flat rate they should be able to account for every hour of labor in a Chilton's/Motor manual. If they can't, they are stealing from you and you have a case. Any idiot can cook the books to show what he wants in court, so show up WITH YOUR LAWYER or other credible witness and ask to see where they got their numbers. If they can't account for them right then you might be able to get charges filed for theft by calling the cops. If they charged straight time you have them since your car wasn't there that long. You probably won't get nearly enough money back for the damage done, but you should at least get something.

For the future you might want to find a trusted shop that can help you out if you end up in a time crunch situation again. Just remember that it takes time to build trust. Start by taking them your oil changes or other maintenance you don't want to do and get a feel for how they do business. Spending some money on services before a big job builds trust on both ends-they trust you will pay, you trust their work. Jumping into a huge job with a new shop will cost you one way or another. Good repeat customers go to the front of the line and get the price breaks, which is how it should be. A good shop will do good work so you will come back and give them your money again. A bad shop-like the one you found-will berkeley you over huge because they know they'll only have one shot at all your cash.

My go to guy that does the things I dont want to or dont have time to do (mostly on our DD's) works on his own airplane. This was the first plus to our relationship.

I also have made it perfectly clear to him that my wife and kids will be in the car that he is working on. Mistakes screw ups and generally poor workmanship is not tolerable.

I also know where he lives.

Lastly you should NEVER leave a car to be repairs with out putting an upset limit to the labor and parts charges. I also find that if you come off as having money and dont care about the cost the shop will take this in to consideration when creating your bill.

My "trusted shop" cracked my aftermarket header, tore out the upper shift boot, and put a big dent in my wooden steering wheel doing a clutch job on my Miata. The reason I let a shop do it? I was moving out of town and couldn't spend the time to do it myself.

ignorant wrote: I'm going into a 2 year period where I won't have tools or my own shop.. I think the civic needs a timing belt.. Hopefully, my dads trusted shop dosen't mess up this bad. Sorry man. Thats rough.. Good race shops are very hard to find.

Make friends with some car guys ASAP. If you were moving to Milwaukitout you could use my garage and tools for some beer and pizza. The rest of the payment comes from the sheer entertainment of watching someone work on a car.

My "trusted" shop has been trustworthy for 21 years for me. Good ol' Norm is an excellent diagnostician and an honest dude. It's going to suck when he retires.

Warwick Neck Garage in Warwick, RI, BTW.

There was no estimate provided and no breakdown of labor time by job.

Um, you didn't ask how much all this E36 M3 was going to cost?

+1 with Jack Poopbert.

Regardless of the bad work, how was it that you decided to drop at that shop before knowing what/how they would charge?

Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you. Dropping a car off with a laundry list like that and not getting a binding estimate up front pretty well guarantees one the sort of bill you got handed.

You could try small claims court, but you're very likely to lose. Basically, you had a lot of work done, and they charged you for it. That's not illegal.

Like others, I'd love to see the name and location.

I must say that this kind of behaviour is not uncommon with race shops. i know of one guy who was working on a race car then decided he liked it and seized it. The original owner had to prove it was his.. get a warrant for his arrest then drag him to arbitration to get the car back.. I mean.. It took months.

Now.. I'll bet the deadline is what "screwed" you. Most race shops have their own agenda and non repeat customer cars get put on the back burner. I could be wrong. That is my experience.

For next time. I would, because I used to do this for work, provide a scope of work. Get bids based upon that scope of work. Compare the bids to the scope. Then go back and get those who missed things to re-bid... Once that happens.. Both you and the contractor(mechanic) sign the bid. Then you get the work done. When he dosen't do what he said he would, in writing, you go get Jim "the hammer" shapiro to shake him down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFZigCwRhI8