infinitenexus
infinitenexus Reader
8/12/19 10:21 a.m.

Doing some notebook planning with the wife here; we're wanting to get a van, probably an old work van like an E250, and build a small RV/light duty tow vehicle out of it in the somewhat near future.  I know vans are often rated around 16-17mpg highway, but I was curious what was possible with some mods?  Maybe lowered a couple inches, a front air dam under the bumper, more aerodynamic side mirrors, intake/exhaust mods to free up a little power.  Is 20mpg on the highway possible?  21?  Assuming conservative speeds, not cruising at 80.  I know with my old 2009 Nissan Titan, installing the factory Armada front air dam was good for almost 1mpg on the highway.

Cooter
Cooter UltraDork
8/12/19 10:41 a.m.

My $900 high roof medium wheelbase 2004 Sprinter consistently gets 22+ on the highway.  My friend says he gets 20 out of his $1500 7.3 Powerstroke E350, but I haven't personally verified his claims, nor his odometer's accuracy.



Either way, I would be looking at a diesel...

STM317
STM317 UltraDork
8/12/19 10:53 a.m.

Aero mods are often cheaper and more effective at improving fuel economy than mechanical stuff. Something like a smooth underbody tray made from coroplast would probably give decent returns without impacting vehicle functionality or looks.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory PowerDork
8/12/19 11:07 a.m.

“I found out that when I bought the van I was doing between 12.3 to 14MPG, I now have an average MPG of 19.5!! Just by using some hypermiling techniques. THANKS GUYS!!!”

 

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/lescargot-my-econoline-van-mod-project-35295.html

 

CyberEric
CyberEric HalfDork
8/12/19 11:19 a.m.

This is very relevant to my interests, thank you!

jimbbski
jimbbski SuperDork
8/12/19 3:29 p.m.

I had a Ford van and have been on the Ford Truck Forum for years.  From what I've seen and read there most gas powered conventional vans are going to do no better 17-18 mpg on the highway.  On the other hand some diesel powered vans can do low 20's.  The problem is that they are a bear to work on and most are driven into the ground before their sold since most are used in  commercial service.

 

I looked for years for a 7.3PS van but never found one that was good enough to buy or the asking price was over my budget and the 6.0L was a crap shoot.

You might get a good one or it could turn into a black hole money pit.   

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
8/12/19 4:00 p.m.

My last van was a 02 E150 with a 4.2. I regularly saw 18-19 on the highway. It also did a pretty good job with towing. On a bad day it got 15

 

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
8/12/19 4:02 p.m.

In reply to jimbbski :

Pretty much echoes my experiences.  I drove a 1990 E-150 a lot and rarely saw much more than 17 MPG on the hwy - and that was back when the speed limit on roads around here was still 55 mph and I rarely exceeded 60.  If I went much over 60 mph I could practically watch the gas gauge needle move. 

The seller of my 1992 E-350 7.3 IDI van said he could get around 22 MPG on the hwy.  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to drive it enough to verify those numbers. 

Don49
Don49 Dork
8/12/19 7:47 p.m.

I had an E250 conversion van with the 7.3idi and got 20 mpg towing a 24' enclosed trailer with my racecar and lots of spares in it.

Antihero
Antihero SuperDork
8/12/19 11:22 p.m.

I imagine weighing it down with appliances and such is gonna drag down the mpgs to start with. 

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
8/13/19 6:16 a.m.

In reply to Antihero :

Definitely, but in my experience the consequences of pushing a brick through the air made more of a difference than weight. With my 1990 I got one of the best MPG when I was hauling over a ton of firewood - because I knew I was overweight and was driving extra cautious and slow.

Cooter
Cooter UltraDork
8/13/19 6:26 a.m.

Weight has a negligible effect on highway MpG,

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
8/13/19 6:36 a.m.

2006 Ford E-350 extended checking in. (5.4 gas V-8)

The absolute best I've ever gotten with it is 16 mpg on the highway, cruising between 70-75.

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
8/13/19 8:44 a.m.

16 is better than the 11 I get in my Disco. If I keep it below 70, I can eek out 13, but as soon as I hit 70, the numbers threaten to fall into the single digits.

Antihero
Antihero SuperDork
8/13/19 9:16 a.m.
Cooter said:

Weight has a negligible effect on highway MpG,

Depends on how much weight. We have an 88 club wagon as a work van, the difference between loaded with tools and unloaded is roughly 2mpg. Significant when we are talking an unloaded mpg of 14mpg

Antihero
Antihero SuperDork
8/13/19 10:13 a.m.
Ian F said:

In reply to Antihero :

Definitely, but in my experience the consequences of pushing a brick through the air made more of a difference than weight. With my 1990 I got one of the best MPG when I was hauling over a ton of firewood - because I knew I was overweight and was driving extra cautious and slow.

Oh yeah, vans arent really low drag

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
8/14/19 2:55 p.m.

I do not know about vans.. I know the box truck I used to drive got 11 mpg... Empty, full, half empty.. did not matter, it always got 11 mpg

paulmpetrun
paulmpetrun Reader
8/14/19 5:32 p.m.

MPG's in vans doesn't seem to matter quite as much about weight(relatively), or aero(they aren't obviously), but more about gearing combined with weight and your right foot.  I'll explain my experience! wink

I've been daily driving vans for a couple decades now.  I'm going to skip every single van, as most were the same, and just hit the highlights and lowlights.

1 - 1999 Chevy express 1500 conversion.  350 vortec, 4l80e, 3.55 rear gears, 235/75/15 tires.  This was all stock with the conversion company fender flares, spoiler, and interior stuff.  It was a rather heavy van.  I needed to run 50 psi(the limit of the lt tires) or it was like rolling on a water balloon.  I would get roughly 15ish around town.  And the best on the highway was 21mpg.  This was cruising across the flats of ohio.  Most of the time in Pa was 19/20 highway.

2 - 2003 Chevy Express 1500 conversion.  5.3 ls, 4l80e, 3.55 gears, 235/75/15 tires.  The best I ever got with this one was 19.  It just didn't seem to cruise as easy on the highway as the 350 van...

3 - 2005 Chevy Express 3500 cargo.  6.0L ls, 4l80e, 4.10 gears, 265/75/16 E load tires.  This was a beast!  It was an empty cargo.  So rather light for a van.  This thing got 10 mpg.  10 uphill. 10 downhill. 10 towing.  It didn't care.  I may have squeaked 11 out of it once!  I added a deep front air dam to it.  It got 10!  It was quiter inside.  Significantly in fact.  All the air rushing and swirling underneath was significant for noise.  But not so much as to improve the mpg's at all.  It was now quite enough, I noticed that my door seals were whistling with air.  They got replaced.

Now here is were I say, MPG really seams to come down to gearing, more than aero.

4 - 2005 Chevy Express 3500 Long wheel base 15 passenger.  6.0L ls, 4l80e, 3.73 gears, 265/75/16 E load tires.  16 MPG's on the highway.  A bit less quick off the line than the previous 3500.  But it cruises so much easier.  This van is heavier than the last one by a bit.  But for all intents and purposes, its the same other than rear gears.  I added the same front spoiler as the one before, and saw the same noise reduction, but no mpg improvements. 

5 - 2012 GMC Savana 16ft Ex-Penske Box truck.  6.0L, 6l85e, 3.73 gears, 225/75/16 tires.  The aero of a house.  Best mpg is 14.2.  The 6 speed transmission in this thing is magic.  I never expected to get into double digits.  To say i'm thrilled is an understatement.

These are just the highlights.  I've owned another half dozen or more vans of various flavors.  One was a ford.  I didn't have it long, just didn't mesh with it well.  It had the 5.4 triton.  While it ran strong, it wouldn't do any better than 11 mpg's or so for me.

So from experience, the gearing is what made all the difference in mpg.  And obviously driving style.  I drive to get the best mileage possible.  Not hypermiling, but grandpa style! 

I've considered building a van for cross country style trips many times.  If I did that today, I'd start with a 2010 and up 3500 express/savana.  6.0L engine, 6l80e trans, either 3.55 or 3.42 gears, 265/70/16(or equivalent 17's) tires(they come stock with 245 width, I prefer the stability of 265's).  Add a front spoiler, make sure you have the smooth composite headlights(none of my vans do now, either 2005 or 2012), a better muffler(the stockers are really restrictive and terrible flowing), and a tune(I'm getting ready to do these mods to my box truck).  I'm reasonably certain if you drive this combo conservatively it would get low 20's on the highway at least.  Maybe even lower mid 20's.  And for something thes size of a house, that's not to bad.  I especially like my 155" wheel base 15 passenger.  I removed most of the seats, so I can carry 5 people and almost everything else I own.  My favorite part is, its all locked up and inside out of the weather.

Let us know whatever you buy/build! 

Paul

jimbbski
jimbbski SuperDork
8/14/19 10:06 p.m.

In reply to paulmpetrun :

I do have to agree with you on the gearing part but aero can have some effect.  One a van I owned, a 1988 E250 Econoline extended version.  It had the 5.8L with the C6 3sp trans and 3.55 rear.  It would get 14-15 tops if I was careful on keeping the speed below 65 mph.  When the tires that were on the van when I bought it finally had to be replaced I choose to change the size to lower the van.  I replaced the stock 215/80X16's with 235/70X16. In doing so I went from a "E" load range tire to a "D" range.  The result was the van was now almost 2 inches lower which made the full bumper width front air dam I had added a few years earlier more effective and dropped the total aero load as well.   It also changed the final drive ratio using a smaller diameter tire.

 

The results were a more stable vehicle, quicker getting up to speed, and better MPG's despite the fact that the engine was spinning faster. The reduced aero loading of the lowered vehicle and the air dam being closer to the ground offset the increase in engine speed required to reach highway speeds. Because  the engine was under less load  I could maintain highway speeds with a smaller throttle setting and get better MPG's. About 1-2 is what I measured.  And I did correct for the tire size effect to the speedometer and odometer.   If I had kept the van the next thing I would have done is replace the 3 sp trans with a 4 sp with overdrive.  

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