What other sporty (trackable) cars have floor mounted pedals?

TurnerX19 said:

Lotus Europa has floor mounted pedals, but I would not track one for rear suspension fragility! The BMW 2002 idea sound very good. Also check out the Formula Race Car Club of America, they will put a total beginner on track with your F First.

Never heard of rear suspension fragility on a Europa.  Lots of people track them.  Owners report they will stay up with an non-supercharged Elise on a track without trouble.

BoxheadTim said:

 

In reply to snailmont5oh :

Already adjusted the pedal as high as possible so I don't have to push it all the way towards the firewall. I usually don't have to use full travel while the car is moving, but I need a bit more practise to deliberately make use of that fact.

That *does* take some getting used to.  I would generally stall the truck at least twice a year, because I would forget that the actual clutch started half way up, and would try to pull out quickly from a light, starting my travel from the floor.  The pedal would be moving way too quickly when it got to the contact point of the pressure plate, and, with 3.08s in the rear, "thump", you're starting the truck in the middle of the intersection.

How does the GTI DSG hold up on a track?  I'd think you could find an Mk6 or early Mk7 for not too much.  Or maybe a B8 Audi S4? No idea how these cars hold up to tracking though.

I'd vote to take the foot completely out of the equation until you figure out what's wrong with it and how to fix it.  I know its not the same thing exactly, but I hurt my achillies while running several years ago.  I switched to from running to cycling to not stress the achillies, and after a year or so, I had big time knee pain.  The cause?  I wasn't flexing my ankle on the left side, so my knee had to do extra work/range of motion and that caused tendonitis.  

The knee problem has really knocked me on my ass, and re-learning the correct movement patterns has been really really rough.  Every now and then I forget and stop using my foot and I know because my knee starts aching.  I sold my manual transmission car because I kept forgetting to use my now-healed achillies and it made my knee act up.  

So yeah, fix the foot first before worrying about driving a manual anything.

8th, 9th, and 10th gen Civic Si have the lightest clutch pedal known to man. You can get an 8th gen dirt cheap at the moment, 9th gens in your price range as well. 

The S2000 is pretty light as well so if that's killing your ankle/foot I would look at a DCT/SMG/PDK equipped cars. Foot/ankle injuries seem to never go away no matter how much PT/surgery one can go through. I had a complete tear of my planter fascia ligament in my right foot about five years ago. It healed up well and I've been back to running and biking with no performance issues; however, that part of my foot still brings me so much pain after a Champcar race weekend. 

Hopefully you can find something to reduce the pain in both an automobile and medical fashion. 

I have a thought; I can with a little practice usually go up and down through the gearbox without the depressing the clutch. Note it takes some practice because the ratios vary from car to car.  I've tried it on track with a few of my cars and it does take longer to accomplish the shifts (if you want to do them cleanly) and so the lap time suffers but it can be done.  Additionally if your just trying to get track time I'm sure you could cut out a few shifts per lap as well, roll corners in a higher gear etc. I bring this up becuase in students cars I typically don't use more than 1 or 2 gears.

So as someone who does contracts for a living; most track days want fendered cars, be they Exocets / Lotus 7s with cycle fenders or Sports Racers. My other thought is ask the groups you can run with to define fenders. I'm assuming you are well past the requirement of having to have an instructor on-board. I know you addressed it put it would seem cheaper to make the Formula car fit the bill.

Final thought is could you partner with someone in a car with an automatic rather than getting another car? I.E. offer to share expenses etc

Looks like high mileage pdk Caymans are starting to creep under $20k. Not quite in your price range but close and a lot of car for the money, particularly if you can get an S (the cheapest thing I could find quickly was a 134k mile S asking $19k). Would run circles around the s2000 while not hurting your foot, and would be an infinitely better track experience than a Civic or gti. And should be done depreciating unless you're going to put another 100k on it.

Many 3 series BMWs had floor mounted gas pedals but not clutch / brakes. My E36 was that way.

'63-'66 Chrysler A bodies use the same pedal configuration, but would stretch the definition of trackable without serious mods.

Just a thought I had, are you sure it is the clutch pedal causing 100% of the issue. I know from tracking my cars when they still had stock seats and 3 point belts that cornering and braking forces really put a strain on your body as it supports itself. Going to fixed back seats with harnesses removes all that strain freeing up all your limbs to just controlling the car. 
 

Maybe for science you should take the car out and hit some of your favourite twisty roads or on/off ramps and really focus on what that left leg/ankle are doing to see if that is part of the problem. 

In reply to Dr. Hess :

When the roll pin that holds the axle to the diff breaks you crash, every time. I have seen the results of this failure several times. A modified car with an upper control arm (Banks or Spyder) would be a great track car. 

If you are willing to consider a non-stick shift car, how about a Mk7 VW GTI DSG (Or a Mk6 Jetta GLI DSG) Early models shouldn’t be too hard to find in your price range.  I have no idea how reliable the transmission is for trackday use, though.

TurnerX19 said:

In reply to Dr. Hess :

When the roll pin that holds the axle to the diff breaks you crash, every time. I have seen the results of this failure several times. A modified car with an upper control arm (Banks or Spyder) would be a great track car. 

Never heard of it happening.  Everyone I know uses the right metric roll pin as well. 

OK this is "off the wall".   I don't know what rule restrictions may apply.

I've always wondered... Why not take the seat out of the Miata and pour your own seat?   Gets you lower and farther back.

All my formula cars have custom poured seats.  Have a tall friend that wont fit in a new Corvette, I sent him this idea.  He mailed me a white jacket with straps that hold your arms behind your back.

YMMV

Put me in the DSG or PDK equipped vehicle. Either that or figure out a way to get fenders on your TT car.

I've only done 2 days at Laguna Seca but the DSG I'm my 2011 GTI has held up fine. 

The first and second gen MINI Coopers have floor mounted pedals.  I think that the handling of the R53 (first gen Cooper S) is superior to the R56 (second gen), but the R56 is quicker. I've only spent about 5 minutes in the F56 (third gen) but felt too far removed from the driving experience of the other two.

adam525i said:

Just a thought I had, are you sure it is the clutch pedal causing 100% of the issue. I know from tracking my cars when they still had stock seats and 3 point belts that cornering and braking forces really put a strain on your body as it supports itself. Going to fixed back seats with harnesses removes all that strain freeing up all your limbs to just controlling the car. 
 

Maybe for science you should take the car out and hit some of your favourite twisty roads or on/off ramps and really focus on what that left leg/ankle are doing to see if that is part of the problem. 

Yes, it's 100% an issue with using the clutch pedal, because I've had that exact problem even when driving several of my (subsequently sold) cars on the street. It's mostly a sign of how far matters have improved in the last couple of years that it's now only bothering me on the track.

Doesn't mean that a better seat isn't on the shopping list , but I doubt it's going to fix this particular issue.

lewbud said:

The first and second gen MINI Coopers have floor mounted pedals.  I think that the handling of the R53 (first gen Cooper S) is superior to the R56 (second gen), but the R56 is quicker. I've only spent about 5 minutes in the F56 (third gen) but felt too far removed from the driving experience of the other two.

The clutch pedal on the R53s isn't floor mounted though, as far as I remember. In fact my R53 was the first car I had to sell because of this issue.

CAinCA said:

I've only done 2 days at Laguna Seca but the DSG I'm my 2011 GTI has held up fine. 

That's good to know. My only experience with owning a car that has a dual-clutch transmission was with an Evo X, and I know that needs some extra fortification of the trans cooling for track use.

What exactly is wrong with the ankle?  Does wearing a brace to stabilize it make a difference?

914 is probably cheaper than a 911 and has floor mount pedals

If I understand the problem, it the length of travel of the clutch pedal that causes the problem.

If so, I'd recommend a clutch master cylinder/slave combo that requires only short pedal travel and then get a pedal stop to limit the length of throw.

I have the opposite problem, the floor mounted gas pedal aggravates the tendon in the front of my ankle and it get very tender after a track day.

Toebra said:

What exactly is wrong with the ankle?

The owner?

Actually, multiple things - achilles tendon injury/damage (confirmed) with a heel spur (confirmed), a small bone splinter on the side of the heel bone (confirmed) and mostly confirmed planar fasciitis. Otherwise I'm fine .

Does wearing a brace to stabilize it make a difference?

I tried that in the past - it helps with one issue and aggravates the others. I actually have a small collection of them by now.

914 is probably cheaper than a 911 and has floor mount pedals

There is that, but that's got an even smaller hamster powering it than, say, a Miata.

maj75 said:

If I understand the problem, it the length of travel of the clutch pedal that causes the problem.

If so, I'd recommend a clutch master cylinder/slave combo that requires only short pedal travel and then get a pedal stop to limit the length of throw.

That's worth looking into, but the real problem is that pushing a top hinged pedal with my foot basically creates a stretching force at the heel (which isn't present with a a floor mounted clutch pedal). Plus I have to be careful with making the clutch heavier as that also causes issues.

R53/56 with the brake and clutch pedals replaced with aftermarket floor mounted versions?  These are cheap enough now that I wouldn't care much about modifying one.

Have you driven an NC Miata to see if the clutch is similar enough to an NA/NB?

In reply to Driven5 :

Only Miata I haven't driven or owned. I *have* owned an RX8 but that was before this whole injury mess started.

Also, NCs are fun for rollbars, although I see that Moti at Blackbird Fabworks has an SCCA legal bar.

Honestly, I'd just add a floor mounted clutch pedal and make it reversible.  Yes, there will be some fab work but doesn't mean that it can't be changed in the future.  Driving a fun car on track is a wonderful experience.  Life is short.

Early 911's used the VW pedal assy.  

BoxheadTim said:

Toebra said:

914 is probably cheaper than a 911 and has floor mount pedals

There is that, but that's got an even smaller hamster powering it than, say, a Miata.

That's a solvable problem

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/d/oakland-1974-porsche-l-915-fuchs/7090615259.html