What popular cars just don't impress you?

Big displacement anything but in particular V8's that make little or no more power than other V6 or smaller displacement comparable motors.... think some corvettes in the past, new camaro, any viper, to a lesser degree mustangs....

Supercharged or turbo cars that do not make significantly more power than N/A counterparts, the new regal, ZR1, BMW 335i etc....

Car that cost way more for their performance than is justified, new M3 vs new MGT, Civic SI vs anything in it's class, any performance VW....

I know there are places where i liked and disliked a car for different reasons, thats ok with me, all cars have an up and down side, few cars are perfect IMO....

Bobzilla wrote: Personally, I don't get the hype on bmw's, and vtec. Both leave me underwhelmed. The former is ok, but maintenance costs alone leave me frightened. THe latter, it's no replacement for torque.

Vtec you are being specific- you don't like Hondas. Variable cam timing is one of sciences great gifts to a broad torque curve.

Streetwiseguy wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: Personally, I don't get the hype on bmw's, and vtec. Both leave me underwhelmed. The former is ok, but maintenance costs alone leave me frightened. THe latter, it's no replacement for torque.

Vtec you are being specific- you don't like Hondas. Variable cam timing is one of sciences great gifts to a broad torque curve.

In order to have a broad torque curve, you must first make torque.

AMG - I don't get it, they are ugly and heavy. If I get a luxury car then I am not trying to go fast.

Panamera - seriously? I guess rappers have a car they can put ugly wheels on and put in videos now

Most hybrids - someone please tell me WHY they need to be shaped like an exact-o knife blade? Come on, just make them look like regular cars(Honda got the memo).

Funny, I find virtually every new vehicle impressive. That doesn't mean that I necessarily like them, but modern engineering is a wonder to behold!

Miata - Plain and boring. Total snooze-fest. No power, no potential for real power without a radical engine swap. Secretary's car.
P71 - Does everything a Lexus LS series does, only worse.

WRX/STI
Sure it can be stupid fast but for some reason...meh

93gsxturbo wrote: Miata - Plain and boring. Total snooze-fest. No power, no potential for real power without a radical engine swap. Secretary's car. P71 - Does everything a Lexus LS series does, only worse.

Merely out of curiosity... what's your definition of "real power?"

That new Subaru-Toyota thing doesn't impress me. At. All. Put a turbocharger or supercharger on it, and then maybe we'll talk.

bigbens6 wrote: Big displacement anything but in particular V8's that make little or no more power than other V6 or smaller displacement comparable motors.... think some corvettes in the past, new camaro, any viper, to a lesser degree mustangs....

Yeah, because the Mustang 5.0's 412 stock horsepower is little or no more power than the 3.7 V6's 305 horsepower.

I for one would love to see a V6 make 412 hp and comparable torque sans boost and still be as reliable as a stock V8.

EcoBoost V6 in the F150 is almost there now.

They beat the crap out of that thing and it was just singing at the end

I love the way the new Suboyota looks but I am just not impressed with it. I can't give a definitive or logical reason but I too am MEH.

Grizz wrote: I for one would love to see a V6 make 412 hp and comparable torque sans boost and still be as reliable as a stock V8.

Not going to happen, in my opinion. A 5-liter V8 makes that level of power and still returns 27 MPG (assuming standard final drive ratio). The only advantage a V6 would have over that is weight and (maybe) efficiency. It would most likely sacrifice low-end torque and reliability to make those numbers, as well.

Now, if you were planning on using variable-geometry turbos, I could see it happening, but you said "sans boost."

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

93gsxturbo wrote: Miata - Plain and boring. Total snooze-fest. No power, no potential for real power without a radical engine swap. Secretary's car. P71 - Does everything a Lexus LS series does, only worse.

Merely out of curiosity... what's your definition of "real power?"

I look at what a similar 4 cylinder like a 4G63 (0.2 liters more displacement, but still an iron block/aluminum head DOHC 16V) can do and the Miata is pretty meh. The best turbo kits from Flyin Miata are looking like 250 or so to the wheels, which a 4G63 can do without breaking a sweat. I don't know of many 400+ horsepower stock block/crank/rods/pistons/cams/valves/valve springs Miatas.

Keep in mind, I like my cars powerful. Way more than is needed based on common sense. My daily driver is a stock 250 horse 550 ft/lbs diesel truck and my fun car is a stock 350 horse 350 ft/lbs 2 seat roadster.

curtis73 wrote: I will admit to not liking a ton of newer "impressive" cars. About the only thing that does impress me is fit, finish, and quietness.

Fit and finish, yes. Even new econoboxes have much better F&F that luxury cars of the '70's, '80's and even the '90's. Manufacturing processes etc have improved dramatically. OTOH:

curtis73 wrote: There is something about a quiet car that isolates me from road noise that I do respect.

To each his own, but that right there is my #1 complaint about most cars. They are made to isolate the driver from any contact with that nasty ol' road. We simply cannot have reality intruding upon the occupant as he/she/it plays with their iPodtabletphone3qzr at highway speeds. That's why there is, what? 500 pounds? of various sound deadener materials (pads, foam, etc, the mid '90's Mercedes had really heavy double paned glass in the doors, for cryin' out loud) added to just about everything built, then to really isolate them it's sprung like a big foam rubber mattress.

I like my cars the same way I like my sex: I wanna FEEL it.

Trucks. None of them impress me, and haven't for a long time. The beds are absurdly high and tall sided and delicate, you can't use them. The interiors are all fru-fru and unsuited for muddy boots and gun racks. They are so fat you can't get it around the farm or through the woods.

93gsxturbo wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

93gsxturbo wrote: Miata - Plain and boring. Total snooze-fest. No power, no potential for real power without a radical engine swap. Secretary's car. P71 - Does everything a Lexus LS series does, only worse.

Merely out of curiosity... what's your definition of "real power?"

I look at what a similar 4 cylinder like a 4G63 (0.2 liters more displacement, but still an iron block/aluminum head DOHC 16V) can do and the Miata is pretty meh. The best turbo kits from Flyin Miata are looking like 250 or so to the wheels, which a 4G63 can do without breaking a sweat. I don't know of many 400+ horsepower stock block/crank/rods/pistons/cams/valves/valve springs Miatas. Keep in mind, I like my cars powerful. Way more than is needed based on common sense. My daily driver is a stock 250 horse 550 ft/lbs diesel truck and my fun car is a stock 350 horse 350 ft/lbs 2 seat roadster.

Check FM again.

I was really just curious, though. You can make that kind of power on a Miata, but it involves a built motor. But yes, if you don't care enough to do that, then it's not the right car. I hear ya, my MX6 will handle more power on the stock motor than my MSM will. (I'm in upper 200s whp with the MSM, stock motor. Should be an easy 12 second car.)

Any factory car that's marketed on how it sounds. I totally don't get this for two reasons: 1. 99% of race cars sound better than any road car REGARDLESS OF CYLINDER COUNT. 2. If you really want pretty noises for their own sakes, doing it with the car's sound system makes more sense than plumbing acoustic pipes in from the intake and engineering organ tubes instead of exhausts.

On the other hand, there are a lot of new cars I really do like. The Toyota/Subaru thing looks intriguing. I dig the new Veloster and the Genesis Coupe. I love the new Lotuses, all of them. I'd kill for any new Porsche minus the SUVs and Panamera. Ferraris and Lambos have always been kind of stupid, but even they are getting less stupid with each new generation. The C6 is an amazing achievement. The modern hot hatches, almost all of them, are pretty great too. Economy cars in general have never been better to drive or look at.

All new cars minus the Morgan, Lambo Murcielago, Fiat 500, Jaguar XFR, Lotus Exige and Evora, and Z06 and ZR1 Vette. The Veyron is an amazing piece of engineering and I like it as that but I don't like it as a car.

Also 1.6 Miatas and Z31 300ZX.

Sky_Render wrote: That new Subaru-Toyota thing doesn't impress me. At. All. Put a turbocharger or supercharger on it, and then maybe we'll talk.

bigbens6 wrote: Big displacement anything but in particular V8's that make little or no more power than other V6 or smaller displacement comparable motors.... think some corvettes in the past, new camaro, any viper, to a lesser degree mustangs....

Yeah, because the Mustang 5.0's 412 stock horsepower is little or no more power than the 3.7 V6's 305 horsepower.

Notice the S on mustangS AND the emphasis that it was to a lesser degree than the other provided examples....

the 4.6 SUCKED and the old 4.9HO was terrible in every iteration, the new one is decent enough for sure, i would more say im annoyed by the camaro with alot more displacement only makes what? 14 more HP? 20?

But also consider that the mustang uses 5.0L to make 412 HP while BMW makes almost identical HP with the 4.0L M3 motor.... And Nissan makes 350HP out of a 3.7L v6, thats 26% less motor but only 15% less power....

Grizz, why sans boost? Whats the down side?

In reply to bigbens6:

Blahblahblah good points on Mustangs etc...

Don't forget about torque. The Nissan and BMW may make similar/more power, but at a drastic loss of torque, making the Ford's faster anyways.

In reply to Javelin:

Gearing can make up alot for torque.... i guess someone COULD make a 10L V12 with the same 410Ish HP and 1,000lbft but who wants that in a performance car?

93gsxturbo wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

93gsxturbo wrote: Miata - Plain and boring. Total snooze-fest. No power, no potential for real power without a radical engine swap. Secretary's car. P71 - Does everything a Lexus LS series does, only worse.

Merely out of curiosity... what's your definition of "real power?"

I look at what a similar 4 cylinder like a 4G63 (0.2 liters more displacement, but still an iron block/aluminum head DOHC 16V) can do and the Miata is pretty meh. The best turbo kits from Flyin Miata are looking like 250 or so to the wheels, which a 4G63 can do without breaking a sweat. I don't know of many 400+ horsepower stock block/crank/rods/pistons/cams/valves/valve springs Miatas. Keep in mind, I like my cars powerful. Way more than is needed based on common sense. My daily driver is a stock 250 horse 550 ft/lbs diesel truck and my fun car is a stock 350 horse 350 ft/lbs 2 seat roadster.

Anything less than 405hp and 400lb-ft is too little, IMO.

rotard wrote: Anything less than 405hp and 400lb-ft is too little, IMO.

Really!?!

93EXCivic wrote:

rotard wrote: Anything less than 405hp and 400lb-ft is too little, IMO.

Really!?!

Wow, that's a long list of powerful performance cars you think are weak! LS1 and LS2 GTO, LS1 and LS2 Corvette, LS6 Z06 Corvette, LS1 Camaro / Firebird, 4.6 SC Cobra Mustang, Mach 1 Mustang, TT FD RX-7, TT 3rd Gen Supra, LT4 ZR1 Corvette, LT6 GS Corvette, 351W Cobra R Mustang, NSX-R, Ferrari 360 Modena, Ferrari 550 Maranello, 996/997 Porsche 911 S....

I'm guessing it was tongue-in-cheek.

So much focus on HP numbers without account for weight here...

Personally, i prefer to speak in terms of "fast."