what to do with my 79 firebird?

Here is the deal. I have a 79 firebird mildly built 403, th350 trans. Currently not running. I've owned it for 4 years now. I bought the Pro-Touring F-body competiton suspension kit for it last year. Now my dilemma. I have been wanting to build a track car for some time. I have been looking at anything with a manual trans and rwd. I can't realy justify having two project cars. I tried to sell the firebird twice with no success and i wasn't asking much. Do I have the suspension installed, get the thing started, and try to sell her again? Or, do I strip out the interior, install a cage, some seats, and bigger brakes and take her to the track? I live in metro Detroit, there is one local road course within 20 minutes of where I live. That's Waterford Hills Raceway. Also Grattan, Gingerman, and Mid Ohio are all within 4 hours of me.

So I put it to the GRM board to decide my fate!!!!

Put in the cage....go have fun.

I think it would make a pretty neat track toy! Cage, 5 speed swap, lots of suspension work, gears, cooling system, brakes, safety gear, big tires and wheels. I bet you could have it on the track next weekend. Ok...just kidding.

But I have seen some neat track cars build from second gen f-bodies.

Or sell the parts off and buy another project if you don't want to build the F-body. You really need to WANT it to make it happen, I think.

Clem

Cage it, run it in AIX. Way cool that way.

Are you going to be happy with a Civic as a track car? If so, you'll burn waaaaay less tires and gas. Otherwise, run the Bird. It will be big and slow, but fun.

ClemSparks wrote: I think it would make a pretty neat track toy! Cage, 5 speed swap, lots of suspension work, gears, cooling system, brakes, safety gear, big tires and wheels. I bet you could have it on the track next weekend. Ok...just kidding. But I have seen some neat track cars build from second gen f-bodies. Or sell the parts off and buy another project if you don't want to build the F-body. You really need to WANT it to make it happen, I think. Clem

I have a 3 core radiator waiting to be installed. I've considered a manual trans swap but I don't have the skill to pull it off. Plus it has an olds 403 engine. I don't know which manual trans will hook up to it. It has a shift kit for low end gearing.

at the moment I would need better seats as the front buckets are shot and wobbly. At least a 3 point seat belt system and better brakes. I don't expect to be going fast at all so a cage can probably wait. Realistically I can have it on the track by next weekend If I stick to the bear essentials.

mndsm wrote: Cage it, run it in AIX. Way cool that way.

I'm no where near ready for wheel to wheel racing. But that is a long term goal.

thunderzy wrote:

mndsm wrote: Cage it, run it in AIX. Way cool that way.

I'm no where near ready for wheel to wheel racing. But that is a long term goal.

The fact that you said this puts you allot closer than you realize!!

I would definitely give it the race car treatment. Remove any unnecessary weight. Aluminum dash with guages. Full (or almost full) cage. Do some track days and keep working on it. Might have to cut and move the front upper a-arm mounts, but that could wait until later. It would make a nicer track car than anything else, and probably be more valuable as well. Find someone near you that races street stocks or something similar. They might have some info or parts that can help you along.

Track down Rad_Capz here on the board. Get details from him:

Yeah! That's the ticket.

Rob_Mopar wrote: Track down Rad_Capz here on the board. Get details from him:

The nicest purpose built TA ever!!! Top 5 TA builds of all time in my opinion. I've read his build threads on other forums. He's even shared plenty of his experience and knowledge about cages on one of my threads on transamcountry.com.

Lets break it down to the essentials. There is an open track day at Waterford Hills july 2. What would I need to make it to that event? Keep in mind I want to stick to a tight budget, and I'm not an Ace wrench. Following track days are August 14 (which is more realistic) and September 25.

Hey, fellow Trans Am Country member Tony79WS6 here.

So, you pretty much have the same Trans Am I have. I ditched my 403 for a Pontiac 400. I 'm not a 403 Olds fan (as stated in some other threads) and you can't run a manual transmission with one because the crank doesn't have a provision for a pilot bearing. My plan is to build mine into a car that is fun to drive around town and at home on a track, like a Pro Touring car, but more stock looking. I want it to be reliable enough that I could take it anywhere, which is definitely not where the car is now.

If I could do it all over again with my car, I'd take care of the body first and then worry about the mechanical stuff. I'm not so sure I'd run a Pontiac V8 either. I'd probably run a LS1-LS2 with a T56. Yeah, the Pontiac purists would be up in arms, but I want the car to be fun and fast. The LS motors are lighter and fit in the engine bay better. Looking under the hood of my car, you would never know that the chassis was built for the Pontiac V8. Besides, it would handle better too with less weight up front.

Interior-wise, I want to run some aftermarket or junkyard seats that are re-upholstered to match the Deluxe interior that my car came with. I wouldn't run a cage unless it really needs it.

You have one of the hottest cars in popularity right now, and companies are pumping out all sorts of cool stuff for them, from restoration parts to stuff like the Year One Bandit parts that modernize the car. I say keep it and make it cool. Most importantly, make it your own.

SilverFleet wrote: Hey, fellow Trans Am Country member Tony79WS6 here. So, you pretty much have the same Trans Am I have. I ditched my 403 for a Pontiac 400. I 'm not a 403 Olds fan (as stated in some other threads) and you can't run a manual transmission with one because the crank doesn't have a provision for a pilot bearing. My plan is to build mine into a car that is fun to drive around town and at home on a track, like a Pro Touring car, but more stock looking. I want it to be reliable enough that I could take it anywhere, which is definitely not where the car is now. If I could do it all over again with my car, I'd take care of the body first and then worry about the mechanical stuff. I'm not so sure I'd run a Pontiac V8 either. I'd probably run a LS1-LS2 with a T56. Yeah, the Pontiac purists would be up in arms, but I want the car to be fun and fast. The LS motors are lighter and fit in the engine bay better. Looking under the hood of my car, you would never know that the chassis was built for the Pontiac V8. Besides, it would handle better too with less weight up front. Interior-wise, I want to run some aftermarket or junkyard seats that are re-upholstered to match the Deluxe interior that my car came with. I wouldn't run a cage unless it really needs it. You have one of the hottest cars in popularity right now, and companies are pumping out all sorts of cool stuff for them, from restoration parts to stuff like the Year One Bandit parts that modernize the car. I say keep it and make it cool. Most importantly, make it your own.

I had many of the same goals when I first purchased my firebird. I've actually never heard anyone complain about the pontiac 400. What is it you don't like about the 400? I would love an LS/T56 swap but I don't have the skill or the budget for it. There are about a dozen completed conversions on ls1tech.com. Really I just want a manual more than anything right now. Thats why I have been considering a totally different car. You're right though, the second gen F body is very popular with the aftermarket these days. My plan is to keep it street legal for the occasional car meet. But I'm not interested in making it pretty. My biggest concerns are safety and mechanical. I really like the functional purpose built look. Like the trans am race cars from the 70s!!

join www.pro-touring.com

that will definately helpo with the knowledge.

for what its worth, you can track damn near anything, and your idea of fun is realtive.

having said that, i have more fun in my ex-drag car duster on auto-x and open track than i did with my purpose built s10 track truck. again, its a relative thing.

put it together, stick it on track, and see if you dig it enough to justify putting time and money into it. if you dont, sell it to me for cheap, and pick up a rust free southern car in the process.

Michael

best bang for the buck= SBC.... parts a plenty. Build a good valve train and a road race pan for track use.

Get a CB and a good Mustache. Then run interference for any friends trying to bring trailersloads of beer back to the East Coast.

Or set it up as a streetable trackday car similar to the red one.

fasted58 wrote: best bang for the buck= SBC.... parts a plenty. Build a good valve train and a road race pan for track use.

Why not just buy a Camaro in the first place then?

Trans_Maro wrote:

fasted58 wrote: best bang for the buck= SBC.... parts a plenty. Build a good valve train and a road race pan for track use.

Why not just buy a Camaro in the first place then?

because the Firebirds from that era are cooler?

snce it has the 403 Olds in it now, i'd find a 455 olds and back it with a manual trans of some sort.. a set of 3.42 gears, stiffer springs, and a cage to tie it all together would make it into a fun car for twisty racing..

Wally wrote: Get a CB and a good Mustache. Then run interference for any friends trying to bring trailersloads of beer back to the East Coast. Or set it up as a streetable trackday car similar to the red one.

Hahaaaaaa!!! If Sally Fields was still that hot and I had a friend named Cletus. I would!!!!

Sounds like you are closer to having it ready for track work.

Why not complete it?? Make sure it is reliable and safe and have a blast . . . while doing that acquire parts for manual swap:

• 5.3L + T5 WC/T56 = Good Bang for the buck . . . Newer Gen III tech
• SBC + T5 WC/T56 = Cheap and easy power

Both make 300+hp if you just stare at them and can be installed over the span of a weekend.

Strike_Zero wrote: Sounds like you are closer to having it ready for track work. Why not complete it?? Make sure it is reliable and safe and have a blast . . . while doing that acquire parts for manual swap: - 5.3L + T5 WC/T56 = Good Bang for the buck . . . Newer Gen III tech - SBC + T5 WC/T56 = Cheap and easy power Both make 300+hp if you just stare at them and can be installed over the span of a weekend.

I would like to keep it cheap and reliable so an sbc/t5 would be more realistic than an ls conversion. But that will be after I upgrade the safety, brakes, and suspension.

Looks like I'm sold on tracking this firebird. Thanks for the help GRM. It will be more unique than the usual miata or mustang. Might not be the best corner carver but it'll be fun.

Areas of concern General mechanical condition will be gone through by professional mechanic with racing experience. Have the suspension system and radiator installed.

Brakes. I would prefer an upgrade sourced from other models. Parts and pieces that can be found at pick pulls. I'm aware of a 1le upgrade but don't know the details.

Chassis stiffening. Pro touring f body manufactures all the products specific to my vehicle. I'll most likely stick with them.

Driver safety. Seats, fixed back. Most likely kirkey or ultra shield. Belts or harness. I'll go with replacing the stock 3 point belts for now. Get cage later then go with 5 point harness.

If I'm forgetting anything or you have a suggestion let me know.

thunderzy wrote: Might not be the best corner carver but it'll be fun.

QFT!!!!

If you are going with a fixed-back racing seat I would strongly consider a 5-point harness now rather than the 3-point stockers. It's really nice to be securely planted in the car. Take the back seat out and run the shoulder belts to the rear-seatbelt hardpoints.

One thing to remember about these cars: It's not as easy as you think to just plop a SBC in there. Most people don't realize that.

-You WILL need to find a different transmission. The car has a BOP-bolt pattern TH350 now that will NOT bolt up to a SBC.

-You will have to source different motor mounts for the SBC (Camaro ones will work)

-If it's a Trans Am, you have a shaker hood. You'll need to figure out how to make the shaker setup work with the SBC. SBC's did come in some 1981 cars with shakers, but they are made of unobtanium. And whatever you do, don't bolt the shaker to the hood. That's just wrong!

-Fuel lines run down the other side of the chassis with SBC's. Easy enough to change.

-Accessories and brackets are all different. Nothing swaps over. The only interchangeable parts between the Olds and a SBC is the distributor cap and rotor. The coil and module are even different! Ask me how I know... I found out the hard way... You might as well be swapping a 5.0L Ford in there.

This is a lot of work. To swap my Pontiac 400 into my car, we had to change the fuel lines, get new accessory brackets, different distributor, engine motor mount brackets, fuel pump, swap the shaker, and I think that's it. Just about everything else fit fine. I believe the 400 is even lighter than the 403 too. They also make aluminum heads and all that stuff for the Pontiacs to make them pretty light. It was still a lot of work, and I'm still ironing it all out, but it was much easier than putting a SBC in the car. And if you go this route, please do yourself a favor and get some nice headers or Ram Air Restorations reproduction long-branch manifolds. I made the mistake of getting cheap Summit 4-tube headers, and they hit everything and killed my starter. It's still sitting dead in the driveway.

If you want to go through the nonsense to put a SBC in there, just get a LS-series motor. For the money, it can't be beat. You can usually find a parts F-body with the T56 for a reasonable price, snag all you want from it, and then scrap the rest to recoup some funds. And besides, if you want the car to handle better, ditching some weight up front will help balance these pigs.