What van?

I've looked at full sized Blazers and an old Subaru, school busses and I guess it turns out I simply like anything on four wheels. Since we're only going to be a two car family with two kids to move around (maybe three?? I gotta pick up another stick for her to pee on!) the most logical car for me to get isn't a car at all but a van, so she can get the kids around in case the other car breaks down.

Oddly, I love vans. Even more than trucks. A truck or car feels like i'm driving a glove but a van? Man, I feel like i get to drive around my own HOUSE!

I'm also hoping to get by with something about $2,500. We have family around to count on in case it breaks, so that helps. And I can buy from MI, KS or MO.

I may want to do towing some day so I figure a full size is what I need. ConsumerReports.org is my goto source for car ratings but they don't rate full size vans. What are the hive opinions on 15 pass or conversion van options?

Ford E350

There's a reason that - back a few years - almost every airport, ski resort, limousine service, taxi service, plumbing company, electrician, carpet company, church, cable installer bought hundreds of thousands of them.

I think the Ford and GM are pretty comparable but in my opinion the Ford body/interiors hold up better. Mechanically i think a 6.0/4l80 and a 6.8/4r100 are pretty comparable. I dont think diesels or later powertrains are relevant in this price range. 

One thing i think is neat about full size vans is they are pretty much the newest vehicle you can still get sealed-beam headlight setups for (i.e. convert to the cargo van headlight setup with junkyard parts). The reaon why this is cool is because aftermarket LED replacement housings can be pretty damn sweet, whereas LED bulbs stuffed into housings built for incandescents are almost universally garbage. 

I sure loved my GMC Savana SLT /Chevy Express SLT, hard to find but they are like a factory conversion van.  2002 or 03 on up you could get doors on both sides and AWD.  Older came with a 5.7 / 4L60E, newer went LS of varing displacement and transmissions behind them.  The LS motors need more than four gears if you want to tow  or a 6.0. 

I think I've only driven a Ford E-series once, but I've driven the Express 1500 we have at work on a number of occasions and, from what I recall, the GM vans are a fair bit better in the ride and handling department. I've actually done an 8+ hour day in that Express and aside from the "boominess" inside due to it basically being a big tin can, it really wasn't unpleasant. Just don't get one with the 4.3 - totally anemic and it might actually be the worst sounding engine ever made. 

I'm excited for some of the newer, Euro style vans to sink a bit further down the depreciation curve. Every time I've been in one I am floored at how HUGE they are inside - would be awesome for a DIY camper conversion.

Sold my 12 passenger E350 yesterday and based on what I've seen looking at other slightly smaller tow vehicles, they are a hell of a deal compared to other big platform trucks.  Used mine as a general purpose station wagon, occasionally ferried passengers when a car wouldn't comfortably fit the crew, and towed an enclosed race trailer with tools/tires/cooler/etc and room to spare.  They're anything but exciting to drive and I would guess that I got somewhere around 13-14 mpg with fillups approaching $100 when gas prices are high, so there are some downsides.  But the thing was totally reliable and cost me about $1200/year in depreciation and maintenance.

One pointer - the upper and lower ball joints had some play at 54K miles.  I hear that it's a good idea to install zerk fittings so they can be greased at oil change time.

WELLLL, ebonyandivory, I took your comment to heart and widened the search. I ended up with this today for $600

Runs, drives, brake line by master rusted thru and needs a new thermostat, but he said I’m welcome to keep it in the church parking lot and fix it there as I have time. 2003 E350 15 passenger with a V10 and 180k miles. Tow hitch installed already. Needs new tires oh and exhaust leak. Haha maybe it was just my imagination but an exhaust leak on a V10 sounds way throatier than a V8.

I do agree that the Chevies feel a bit more modern, I drove both for FedEx a decade or so back. But this one was too good to pass up, no matter the brand.

JWagner, I too take the perspective that it’s just a work truck with a very big camper shell. I much prefer a van so I don’t have to tie things down or worry about rain. Also visibility is way better for people’s sketchy rural driveways, for instance. 

Okay now comes the question of what in the world do I do to make it safe for my family to ride in here and there? Is rolling over really that common? My BIL is super worried about that, and his church even retrofitted a dually axle onto their people mover. I figure anything that I see in the news means it’s too rare to happen to me, and I did drive my FedEx Econoline van like a maniac. However, my family is very much more precious to me. We’re going to the Carolinas next month and I’d rather take this than the Town & Country, if only for the ability to stop and sleep on a real full size bed. I may regret it at the pump though. 

Also, what a crazy good deal!!!

What a steal! Nicely done.

Score!

I figured I should start a new thread since asking "how to make this car not roll over" is different than "what should i buy"

I will tell you that i have done ALL TEN spark plug inserts on a v10, in an Econoline (RV) and i STILL like that engine. So that should tell you something. It's the only mod motor i particularly like. 

I drove the wheels off a 1979 Ford Econoline and it never felt like it was going to roll over. If you're really worried I'd think a couple hoops would be pretty trivial.

P3PPY said:

I figured I should start a new thread since asking "how to make this car not roll over" is different than "what should i buy"

Arrowcraft or other dually conversion. And I'm glad I could help!

But honestly, I'd be more worried about getting struck by lightning than rolling over. I've seen a dozen rollovers in person over the decades and not one was a full sized van. 

In reply to P3PPY :

Drive up to Maine.  Find Moose.  Swerve around at speed.   Works for the Swedes.

I'm not qualified to speak about this, but the extended Ford vans do have a reputation for falling over.  From what I have heard though, this is mostly a problem when they're fully loaded with passengers as that raises the center of gravity.  The NHTSA has a bulletin on this. 

I drove my 12 pass. mostly empty and never felt any stability problems, although it would fishtail with the agility of an ocean liner in the snow.

I stopped back by today to start on it. I think I’m going to bend out whole new brake lines. Some of it looks okay but as has been pointed out, that’s a lot of weight to stop. 

The rust is typical Michigan stuff but MAN that looks like a significant amount of formerly structurally important metal just flaking off!!

its been recommended to me to get new control arms right away. <<apparently just the bushings, based on what I see on RockAuto>> I guess I’ll see how it feels just driving it. I’ll get some brand new tires too.

I also think I figured out the problem with the exhaust 

I also went thru and proactively sprayed like every single bolt with Kimball Torq CB spray.  a few times.

I think that if the frame is sound, now is a good time to put a U-Joint Off-road conversion on or take it to Asheville and have him do it.  Those things are sick.  Said to drive much better than Pathfinder or Quigley conversions.  You can always tell a U-Joint because the front axle sits an inch or so further forward.

http://www.ujointoffroad.com/

Sadly I discovered that the cat had been stolen. That’s the 4’ gap in the exhaust. The seller was sad about that too and offered some money back. It’s certainly not their fault. The guy who had checked it out the day before me had arrived early then left, “I forgot my wallet.”

oh well. I found a $50 universal and PilotBraden is going to weld it on for like $60

In reply to P3PPY :

Looks like your twin I beam suspension is in danger of becoming a single beam!

nutherjrfan said:

In reply to P3PPY :

Drive up to Maine.  Find Moose.  Swerve around at speed.   Works for the Swedes.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/VtQ24W_lamY?rel=0

 

I'm glad people are out there holding high standards and pushing the manufacturers to be better, but looking at that Rav go through there I find myself thinking "if you want your car to do better than this you are truly asking for it to be stupidproof". In the end that's laudable as stupidity is rampant, but it still feels kinda weird to have the expectation that "if i can still hamfist this so hard that i die, it must be made wrong!" At some point the problem is that you're not hitting the moose and are flying off the road sideways instead. DAMN YOU TOYOTAAAA!!!!!! [insert sound of tree branch impaling human body here]

In reply to P3PPY :

Do you happen to need a ladder rack for your van?

Pete Gossett said:

In reply to P3PPY :

Do you happen to need a ladder rack for your van?

I never would have THOUGHT so, but maybe?? What else do you use that for? I don’t really take my ladders to go

In reply to P3PPY :

Well, Tom used it to attach an awning. I’m picking up the van at the Challenge & the ladder rack is removed & in the back. You’re in MI? If you’re interested I can see if anyone has space to haul it back north from FL? No idea what it’s worth, but I’ll never need it. 

It sounds like this train has left the station but my suggests would be 

-Beat up Dodge Sprinter : Ask your plumber 

-Izusu/NPR forward cab (they come with Chevy LS's)

soon: Ford Transit  

That Rav4 moose test footage is sorta scary, especially because we just got a 19 Rav4 for my wife to replace the 4Runner. I guess I should have looked for Swede moose test videos first. Doh!!