What will we be racing 20 years from now?

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Huh... I haven't run across many of these at my local track.

GameboyRMH said:

QuikMcshifterson said:

I understand the charging infrastructure doesn't exist yet

It does, check your house for one of these:

He was referring to large scale charging at a track.  I suspect most track pits are not set up to have a large number of EVs all charging at the same time - 2 or 3, perhaps, but not a few grids worth of EVs.

Twenty years from now it will be very, very quiet.........in more ways than one.

Honestly. It completely depends on where Right To Repair is at in 20 years.

That's the answer. 

Probably mostly the same ICE cars we are now. Newer cars are more and more problematic. Locked ECUs, electronics that will be a nightmare to keep running once parts start drying up.

However equally as likely is EVs. Provided tracks start putting in level 3 chargers. Model 3s are starting to get pretty cheap. In 20 years they should be cheaper than now relative to income anyways.

In reply to theruleslawyer :

Absolutely. I fully expect some kind of crazy wild mods to exist for electric cars too. Especially as the older cars fall way out of warranty and the hacking scene for them improves. There's a world where these are opened up, hardware replaced with open and standardized pieces. 

Unfortunately, the challenges of *actually* fixing hardware like this goes in a way different direction than ICE cars. 

So, recently had a related thought about this.

Most people seem to prefer racing something that looks like a street car. 

Cars will continue to get more and more complex, making them hard to turn into race cars.

People like racing cars that can easily be repaired.

Could this lead to growth for SCCA GT classes? Pick your favorite body and engine and then mix with a tube chassis? 

20 years?  Assuming we're around in 20 years, I suspect actual racing will be banned as a frivolous and wasteful anti-social behavior.  For those who insist, they will be given some very realistic VR headsets, and injected with a synthetic form of adrenalin.

Brz's and its clones might get cheap and i feel like theyll flood the racing scene, more then they have now, kinda like miatas.

pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) said:

At some point, we may look back at the TCR cars available from several manufacturers in disbelief that you could write a check and walk out with something so cabable.  

 

TCR fields have pretty much disappeared in the US.  

20 years ago, in 2004, I started rallycrossing, with a mostly stock FB RX-7 on white letter 205/60-13 street tires.  It had stock everything but springs and a header.

Now, on the other hand, after all sorts of different cars, I rallycross... er....

...

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

David S. Wallens said:

So, recently had a related thought about this.

Most people seem to prefer racing something that looks like a street car. 

Cars will continue to get more and more complex, making them hard to turn into race cars.

People like racing cars that can easily be repaired.

Could this lead to growth for SCCA GT classes? Pick your favorite body and engine and then mix with a tube chassis? 

 

I had a thought earlier today.  Aside from a few outliers, you can't really get camshafts for engines anymore.  It's not like it used to be where no matter if you had a Buick V8 or a BMW four cylinder or a Datsun anything, you could find hotter cams to wake them up.  This really hurts the ability to make a good race engine, although historically racing in the US is fairly limiting on power upgrades so maybe this isn't that big a deal.

Hyundai has continuously variable camshaft *duration* in production engines.  (I've posted about this before, it's really wild, the cam lobes are on this eccentric thingy and they speed up or slow down the lobe while it is opening the valve)

We can now get "hotter cams" with software, not hardware.

What will we be racing 20 years from now?

Probably bed pans and mobility scooters (hot rodded, of course)

Tom1200 said:

My friggin Datsun.........

In one of Peter Egan's R&T's columns he mentioned thst there is always a Datsun Roadster in attendance at every SCCA Runoff.  

We can rest assured that 20 years from now at least one person will be racing a Datsun roadster (and a 1200). 

Tom1200 said:

My friggin Datsun.........

In one of Peter Egan's R&T's columns he mentioned that there is always a Datsun Roadster in attendance at every SCCA Runoff.  

We can rest assured that 20 years from now at least one person will be racing a Datsun roadster (and a 1200). 

Yup, still stand by my statements of a few years ago. 

You will have the people who go to vintage and you will have the people building a competition car from scratch. Let's face it, the percentage of production cars that can race on a track is dropping year after year. Crossover suvs are the default. Sedans and roadsters are more and more rare. Electric vehicles have their own challenges, that could be a thread in itself between battery management, charging at the track, and fire response...

You can still buy a crate 350. There will be other engines made and available as crates as the hobby market demands. It's going to be easier to build a tube chassis than work around the electrical systems, safety systems, ADAS, etc. What's the cost of a simple tune chassis vs buying a new, or recent used, car and spending the time ripping everything out and reengineering the stuff needed to work without it all and adding cage/etc?

It will likely scale from small motors to big motors, with small tires and big tires....  You will still have range.

I think caged production cars will become a smaller and smaller percentage. Not that I'm sure it will cease to exist, but just less and less common as a new car thing. 

In reply to Apexcarver :

Ford still makes Kent engine blocks, at least as of a couple years ago.  Great if you have a Formula Ford, and I also assume a Cosworth BDA.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

We can now get "hotter cams" with software, not hardware.

Also, most engines these days are turbocharged.  If you want more power you just turn up the boost, that's a lot easier than messing around with changing cams.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

We can now get "hotter cams" with software, not hardware.

Also, most engines these days are turbocharged.  If you want more power you just turn up the boost, that's a lot easier than messing around with changing cams.

 

More flow from better heads, manifolds, and cams means more power no matter what.  Leaning on the turbo to do this just adds heat and has suboptimal throttle response.  Even the BMW engines from the early 80s turbo era that were running at 5.5 bar manifold pressure in qualifying, were 300hp or so naturally aspirated, which is pretty good for a 1.5l four.  Especially given that the DFVs that were still common were making about 500-550 from what was essentially two 1.5l fours.

Something interesting that I gleaned from an article about a "Chevy" Indycar engine, it made 700hp from 2.65l of displacement and only about 11psi boost.  This made it more drivable than the Buick pushrod V6s which needed... more.

David S. Wallens said:

Most people seem to prefer racing something that looks like a street car. 

Hm.  I'm not sure if this is based on the appearance of being a street car or just based on cost and accessibility.  The cheapest/easiest to get purpose built SCCA race car is probably a Spec Racer Ford, and those fields are pretty large.  Locally only Spec Miata (another very accessible class) brings more cars, and even that isn't consistent.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

More flow from better heads, manifolds, and cams means more power no matter what.  Leaning on the turbo to do this just adds heat and has suboptimal throttle response.  Even the BMW engines from the early 80s turbo era that were running at 5.5 bar manifold pressure in qualifying, were 300hp or so naturally aspirated, which is pretty good for a 1.5l four.

Yeah, I'm not saying that increasing boost is better or more efficient, just that it's easier and cheaper.  3 minutes to load a new tune on the car, instead of 12 hours of wrenching to change cams.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Well, for racing, what's easy is dependent on what the rulebook allows   And are you racing for a few seconds or a few hours?

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Well, for racing, what's easy is dependent on what the rulebook allows   And are you racing for a few seconds or a few hours?

Fair enough, but the question about camshafts being available seemed to be mostly aimed at non-racing builds.  If you're building a race engine there are always camshafts available if the rules and your budget allow it!  (well, not if you're running a rotary, but...)