David S. Wallens wrote: The first time I drove a Viper, I thought that the tach was broken. The car was pulling like a freight train while the tach was barely climbing. Drive one and see if it's for you. As others noted, the ergonomics can be a bit challenging--like warm cockpits and no dead pedal. But it is fast, though.
I'm sure it's fast and fun- it won a lot of races for a reason. But I would not be afraid of it because it's exotic.
David S. Wallens wrote: The first time I drove a Viper, I thought that the tach was broken. The car was pulling like a freight train while the tach was barely climbing.
This. They were torque monsters. Combine that with a super tall 6th gear and the drivetrain was super relaxed cruising the highway...damn shame the steering wasn't. It would turn something like 1400rpm at 80mph.
Sigh...every time I post this picture, as much as the car was maddening to drive, it still makes me drool.
Flight Service wrote: cramped compartment, heat, and a strong desire to kill you.
My father was a Chrysler tech in the 90s and does not mind loud, deadly, rough cars (the 67 Camaro and street sandrail in the garage can attest to that), he did not care for the Viper.
BrokenYugo wrote:Flight Service wrote: cramped compartment, heat, and a strong desire to kill you.My father was a Chrysler tech in the 90s and does not mind loud, deadly, rough cars (the 67 Camaro and street sandrail in the garage can attest to that), he did not care for the Viper.
The older cars do have the wiff of immediate death if you make a mistake about them. That is what makes them fun on the street, not so fun on the track they really needed to fix the rear end on the Gen I/II cars.
Really don't discount the newer Vipers and they a lot of fun. And they look cool, but I am biased, I like them a lot more then some seriously high dollar stuff.
I drove a 3rd gen Viper at a Skip Barber class and was amazed at how docile it was. I was expecting a brutal car, but came out of the class saying "I could DD one 3/4s out of the year (we get snow/ice in the winter)."
Didn't JG describe the current one as about as docile as an overgrown Miata, just with a lot more power?
A buddy of mine actually had a friend die sitting next to him in one when said freind decided to take his dad's second gen car for a joy ride. The tree hit the drivers side.
What's wrong with the rear end on the early ones? Lift throttle oversteer?
Part of me has wanted a blue-with-white-stripes '97 GTS for 20 years now. I doubt it'll happen though -- that part is subservient to the part that's wanted an FD for 25 years and I don't have space for both! :)
In reply to codrus:
All rear drives will lift throttle oversteer...
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General rant: The Viper engine is not related to the truck V10. The Viper is an LA engine, the truck engine is a Magnum. They're superficially similar and have the same displacement, but that is about it.
Knurled wrote: In reply to codrus: All rear drives will lift throttle oversteer...
Sure, but due to suspension geometry some are a lot worse than others.
Knurled wrote: In reply to codrus: All rear drives will lift throttle oversteer...
That is not entirely true. The ONLY oversteer I can get out of the truck is power on, and that requires wet pavement and a lot of room. Stupid 12ft wheelbase.
BoxheadTim wrote: Didn't JG describe the current one as about as docile as an overgrown Miata, just with a lot more power?
That is exactly what they drive like, a big spec miata or a slightly worked over S2000. With just 3x the adhesion and acceleration.
Former 97 GTS owner, my only issue was really getting in and out of the car. Short car rides weren't fun because of that. I never had a problem with the location of any of the controls, I'm 6' 1". There isnt much of a selection for stock rear tires for the stock 17" wheels. Switched to 18" in 99, ABS wasn't a thing till 2001. I only ever slid to a stop once. Did manage to take it on a 1600 mile road trip but never managed more than 22.5mpg even with the tall gearing, never got worse than 12mpg back and forth to work. If you want to get attention they are still great for that. It would always make me laugh when people would say, "I wish I could afford one," when they were driving new Cadillacs that cost over double what I paid. One nice thing is they seem to have bottomed out in price, although it can take awhile to find a buyer. Overall I like the fact that I've owned one and thought it was awesome in its own regard but I'm much happier driving a new mustang everyday.
My only experience with a viper was an early GTS coupe. Drove it for one 20 minute session at Mosport. It wasn't my car (so I wasn't pushing hard), but I remember having a favorable impression. Then again, that was 15 years ago.
Bobzilla wrote:Knurled wrote: In reply to codrus: All rear drives will lift throttle oversteer...That is not entirely true. The ONLY oversteer I can get out of the truck is power on, and that requires wet pavement and a lot of room. Stupid 12ft wheelbase.
You're not cornering hard enough 
I stand by my assertion. It is simple physics. You lift throttle, you shift load forward, giving the front tires more vertical load for the same lateral load and giving the rear tires less vertical load for the same lateral load.
Now, the vehicle may be tuned with so much understeer that you don't notice it as more than a slight reduction in the amount of Farmer John plowing that the vehicle is doing, or you're not cornering hard enough to where the load shift makes a noticeable difference to the tires' grip level, but it's there.
(I'm trying hard to eradicate "weight transfer" from my vocabulary. It's a nice expedient but it is wrong, and leads to wrong thinking like body roll is the cause of lateral load transfer)
Knurled wrote: Now, the vehicle may be tuned with so much understeer that you don't notice it as more than a slight reduction in the amount of Farmer John plowing that the vehicle is doing, or you're not cornering hard enough to where the load shift makes a noticeable difference to the tires' grip level, but it's there.
Sure, that much is physics. That's not my question.
The claim was made that the Viper is prone to killing people, why is that? Is it just that it's a car with lots of grip and close-enough to neutral handling that when an inexperienced driver gets scared in a corner, lifts, and finds himself sideways he's going too fast to recover and hits something? Or is there something more subtle in it, like a rear suspension geometry that's prone to binding or dynamic toe changes or something else that makes the balance shift suddenly towards more oversteer?
IIRC it was a toe change issue. Toe dynamics was what they changed with the GTS.
Lift throttle oversteer behavior is very much dependent on suspension geometry. Some do it a lot, others only when really provoked. And some will do it more on high vs low traction surfaces, due to the amount of suspension compression you get before reaching the grip limits.
In the Jeep, let off the throttle in a curve on dirt, especially going down a hill and it'll get pretty sideways. Give it throttle, the tail sticks. But on pavement, backing off the throttle doesn't really make it noticeably loose.
Due to suspension geometry, with the extra cornering load you get within the grip limits on pavement, you get some roll steer that aims the rear axle towards the outside of the turn a bit, so it's harder to get it to build up enough slip angle to break loose.
Despite their drawbacks, I feel early Vipers will go up in value. They are after all, the 427 Cobra of the nineties!
Andy Neuman wrote: Overall I like the fact that I've owned one and thought it was awesome in its own regard but I'm much happier driving a new mustang everyday.
Lookup the performance specs on a 1st gen Viper vs a 2011+ Mustang GT. They're nearly identical.
Bah. You guys suck. Way to kill the dream 
LanEvo wrote: Bah. You guys suck. Way to kill the dream
Get one just don't drive like an idiot.
I suspect modern tires, better alignment and perhaps different valving and/or spring rates will help quite a bit.
Tim Suddard wrote: Despite their drawbacks, I feel early Vipers will go up in value. They are after all, the 427 Cobra of the nineties!
This. I don't think they'll hit 427 Cobra values, but I do think they'll go up significantly. After all, how it drives isn't really relevant to many buyers auctions like Barrett Jackson. Honestly, how many of the expensive cars bought there are actually driven more than too and from the trailer they're transported in?
calteg wrote:Andy Neuman wrote: Overall I like the fact that I've owned one and thought it was awesome in its own regard but I'm much happier driving a new mustang everyday.Lookup the performance specs on a 1st gen Viper vs a 2011+ Mustang GT. They're nearly identical.
sure, but are the interior specs the same? I think that's what he's referring to and most comments seem to be about. The Mustang GT is a very comfortable car, especially as a DD. This thread gives me the impression that the viper would be an opposite experience.
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