What's the appeal of diesel?

So, I've now spent a few weeks with our new VW Beetle TDi project car and I'm beginning to form my own opinions, but I'm curious what the internet says about the appeal of diesel.

It seems that every time someone mentions a car (the Mazda CX5 comes to mind), several folks chime in that they'd buy if if there were a diesel version made. So what's the appeal?

Speak.

jg

Having finally driven a couple, I will say very little unless you are towing.

Fuel economy and longevity, in that order...that's why I would be attracted to a diesel in my next car. In a truck, add towing ease/capability to the list.

Fun is definitely not one of the items that will make the list.

They are full of torques Plus I kinda like the smell.

Towing torque and fuel economy.

Because of fuel economy mostly.

Well, notice it's not "VW diesels" first of all .

Next, it's torque off the line, better real-world fuel economy, and the ability to tow light loads.

Yep fuel economy, longevity, and torque. Great for vehicles that have to haul or go offroad, dull but potentially useful in other things.

Torque is always fun! It's why we like the big engines.

It's nice for the wife's car.

For me it used to be the lack of complexity, no emissions stuff and cheap fuel costs. That's all gone now.

I wouldn't have thought diesel would make much difference in towing in a car. A 3/4 ton truck, sure, but a compact car or a minivan? The towing limits in those are much more related to the chassis/cooling/braking/etc than the motor, no?

Sonic wrote: Fuel economy and longevity, in that order...that's why I would be attracted to a diesel in my next car. In a truck, add towing ease/capability to the list.

All of these I get, but I'm starting to believe the economy thing is a false economy (in cars, not trucks). A car that gets 42mpg of diesel at $3.89 per gallon costs about the same to operate as a car that gets about 35mpg of gas at $3.39 per gallon. That's the part I'm having trouble with. If diesel were priced more reasonably I think things would be very different.

jg

In reply to JG Pasterjak:

You are going for EPA ratings. In the real world most people have a lot of stop and go driving, have a hard time matching the gas ratings, etc. It's a lot easier to get better mileage with a torquey diesel than with a peaky gas motor for the average driver.

I have an old mercedes diesel mainly because of reliability (its 30 years old with 400k+ miles on it and still runs great), its also nice that its fairly simple, and its nice that a potential fuel leak is much less dangerous. And, 97 and older diesels have no emissions testing in CA, so it saves $80 every 2 years which is kinda nice. As far as VW diesels, I guess the biggest thing is fuel economy, and the potential for much better performance while still getting the same fuel mileage. They are also usually more reliable than the gas vw engines.

Due to how diesel is taxed in the US, it isnt all that economical for passenger use, you're really splitting pennies, at least around here. Due to how diesel emissions are handled in the US, its also becoming too much of a PITA to be worth it, even in big trucks. I've heard UPS is going back to gasoline to avoid all the troubles the latest "clean diesels" have.

JG Pasterjak wrote:

Sonic wrote: Fuel economy and longevity, in that order...that's why I would be attracted to a diesel in my next car. In a truck, add towing ease/capability to the list.

All of these I get, but I'm starting to believe the economy thing is a false economy (in cars, not trucks). A car that gets 42mpg of diesel at $3.89 per gallon costs about the same to operate as a car that gets about 35mpg of gas at $3.39 per gallon. That's the part I'm having trouble with. If diesel were priced more reasonably I think things would be very different. jg

jg Don't also bring up the premium that a diesel costs to a gas engine- since that kind of math is ok for hybrids, but apparently not for diesel.

VW asks for a $6k premium on their diesels.

Javelin wrote: In reply to JG Pasterjak: You are going for EPA ratings. In the real world most people have a lot of stop and go driving, have a hard time matching the gas ratings, etc. It's a lot easier to get better mileage with a torquey diesel than with a peaky gas motor for the average driver.

So how do you figure it's good to spend $4-6k more for a diesel? His fuel costs are right.....

Cost per mile would have to be pretty different to make up that premium.

The only one that has my interest is the skyactiv Mazda thing..Aluminum, 6krpm and lotsa torkeses... But I dunno if they'll put it in something interesting, and I don't know what the throttle response is like.

In reply to alfadriver:

I personally don't think it's worth the extra money for the diesel or a hybrid, but Joe Consumer says otherwise going by sales. FWIW, Mazda is saying their Sky-D products won't have much, if any, premium.

I loved my diesel for the convenience of not having to stop to fill up. Plus I love boost.

Torque, economy, torque, and the ability to lay down a smoke screen at the opportune time

When I bought my first diesel truck diesel was still $.99/gal while regular was $1.89+/gal. I will not own a gas truck again. I tipped the scales the other day at 17XXXlbs and it was no problem getting the mass moving. The best mpg I ever saw out of my VW TDIcup was 51mpg and that was with 3 adults, a trunk full of luggage and 3 bikes hanging off the back. I don't think a gas vehicle would of maintained that efficiency with the same load.

Diesel is just more efficient in a real world apples to apples comparison

Kenny_McCormic wrote: I've heard UPS is going back to gasoline to avoid all the troubles the latest "clean diesels" have.

When they started adding DEF to farm equipment, I knew this country went too far......its easy to get if you're a trucker, but WTF if you're in the middle of nowhere.

BTW, the UPS driver on my company's route isn't thrilled about eventually not having diesel and a manual.

Javelin wrote: In reply to alfadriver: I personally don't think it's worth the extra money for the diesel or a hybrid, but Joe Consumer says otherwise going by sales. FWIW, Mazda is saying their Sky-D products won't have much, if any, premium.

You may not want one, but many do. And many of those are quite critical of hybrids due to the cost-to-benefit. It's not as if either are all that fun to drive. So it's more about the math.

I will say that I'm quite happy with the irational buyers of the super duties.