What's the secret to the Alpha platform's handling prowess?WWh

I'm not sure if I see the female Camaro thing but that might just be because I can't see into one?  Also women like to be seen too.

I just came home from a 3 hr rideshare stint.  The douche in the Mustang double parked holding up a busy  cross street for no apparent reason when there was a perfect alley space 10 ft in front of him poked me in that direction - when it gets to the witching hours the streets are full of those types of wankers.

He didn't hold me up - oppo direction - but I looked right at him curiously and all he could do was look away as he ignored the very polite toot of a horn behind him.  Other than at a track are late model Mustangs and I suppose Camaros owned by anything other than wankers? 

The Thu/Fri/Sat nite crowd in DC are always the full-size Dodge/Infiniti/German/Pony Car/occasional sports car wanker/douche crowd anyways so I shouldn't be too hard on the Ponys. 
 

The better sales could also be due to the fact the Mustang is a lot better looking than the Camaro. As a matter of fact my 95 z28 was better looking than the new ones. 

In reply to JimS :

I actually prefer the look of the Camaro and always have no matter the gen.  But I wholeheartedly agree.  The Mustang is currently the 'better' looking car since they went with the retro look.  And whilst I think the previous two Mustangs looked like crap I still like the looks somewhat. 

The poseurs don't think like that though. 

racerfink said:

Ransom said:

racerfink said:

https://youtu.be/UV0xebGk2lM

This explains some of the problems with Ford’s EPAS.

That was three minutes of a guy who doesn't know what's wrong trying to ask YouTube (!) to help him figure out why his steering feels sloppy. I didn't hear anything that sounded like an explanation of anything.

Well.when I get back on Wi-Fi, I’ll post the other 49 videos that came up, along with all the links to Mustang forums talking about the numerous EPAS problems.  Would that be better?

Only if they actually explain the problem. Was there something in that video I missed which actually detailed the issue? I'm not saying there isn't an issue. All I observed was that that video did not contain a specific description of a problem or any info which detailed the discovery and crux of an EPAS issue. It was literally a guy saying "my steering feels sloppy and I've taken it to a couple of places and they don't know. Do you guys know what it is?"

alfadriver said:

IIRC, this whole line has been going on for a very, very long time- where the GM cars out handle the Mustang, but the Mustang wins in the sales ring.  Like for decades now.

A lot of people like Cardi B  and instant coffee, too.   

In all seriousness, the Mustang has Americana cachet built around it that has nothing to do with how it handles or performs. I'm still mad at Ford regarding the water pump issue in the FWD 3.7 that caused it to fail with zero warning under 70k, or a Mustang might be higher up on the possible cars to buy simply because of the green color currently being offered.

Vigo said:

If it's just stiffness, everyone else could have just made their cars stiffer.

That's probably vaguely insulting to an entire profession. I'm not in that profession so i can't say, but I'm pretty sure designing things to be stiff involves an interplay between a whole host of factors that have to be compromised to reach the happiest medium.....

Ask Dale Earnhardt what he thinks the trade off is?  Oh, he’s dead because of it.

JimS said:

As a matter of fact my 95 z28 was better looking than the new ones. 

Gotta disagree on that one...

1995

2018

The 2019 refresh is a definite downturn for the Camaro, though... at least the ZL1 wasn't affected.  Then again, I prefer the 2017 Mustang to the 2018 refresh.  I do miss ours in Grabber Blue.  It was a great looking car.

I was looking at Bullitts and used GT350s when I came across our ZL1 at a really good deal.  I was always a Mustang guy, but the Camaro had more of what we wanted, and the content/price point was much better.

Having owned both, IMHO, the Camaro has better fit/finish, better interior materials, design and features.  The Camaro definitely handles better, but it's kind of apples/oranges to go from Mustang PP1 to Camaro ZL1.  The Camaro is nicer inside compared to the GT350 I sat in...  IMHO the Mustang interior design just looks cheap.  The visibility thing is overblown as well.  I would guess that most folks sit in a Camaro at the dealer, with the seats adjusted all the way down and never move them.  Vision to the rear is no worse than the Mustang, and the Camaro back up camera and display is much better.  It does have a little more of that 'bunker' feel than the Mustang, but I can't rest my arm on the window on the Mustang either, so it really isn't that big of a difference.

I think the Mustang just has that "Americana" image that Brett mentioned.  The Camaro has been kind of a caricature of itself since 2010, after having disappeared from the market for a few years, and has fallen behind a bit.

Ask Dale Earnhardt what he thinks the trade off is?  Oh, he’s dead because of it.

I'm really hoping you mean because the wall he hit was too stiff. If it's about his car then we have to talk about what a car is actually supposed to do to decrease the deceleration of the occupants during a collision. Generally a stiffer car is more likely to kill you. Now if it's a reference to his neck, then that's just.. gonna offend some people, lol. 

To each his own. I still think my red 95 is better looking than the new one. Sleeker and not so cartoonish. The fit and finish was abysmal but I liked the car. 

Knurled. said:

Also, if you want to turn anecdotes into data, Camaros have typically been female owned, in the sample that I've ever seen.  Girls don't want cars now, they want SUVs.  So of course Camaro sales suck compared to the Mustang.  I've never had a female customer who owned a Mustang but Camaro ownership was maybe 70:30 female bias.

I've been googling about and can't find any data that remotely supports your claims.  

Speaking of BS, saying that generation X is superior to Y aesthetically is purely subjective as well, unless you have polls to back it up.

In reply to Rodan :

There's no accounting for taste, but the back of every post-hiatus Camaro I've ever laid eyes on has looked ridiculous to me. Those cheap, undersized taillights sticking way up in the air are just a deal-breaker for me, and this is coming from someone who generally doesn't care much about such things.

In reply to Kreb :

It's not bs. It's just enthusiasts expressing opinions in a friendly discussion. 

Kreb said:

Knurled. said:

Also, if you want to turn anecdotes into data, Camaros have typically been female owned, in the sample that I've ever seen.  Girls don't want cars now, they want SUVs.  So of course Camaro sales suck compared to the Mustang.  I've never had a female customer who owned a Mustang but Camaro ownership was maybe 70:30 female bias.

I've been googling about and can't find any data that remotely supports your claims.  

Speaking of BS, saying that generation X is superior to Y aesthetically is purely subjective as well, unless you have polls to back it up.

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