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HappyAndy
HappyAndy SuperDork
10/25/13 8:05 a.m.

I think that I'm nearing the breaking point with my SAAB c900 turbo. I bought it as a project car and possible GRM challenge car about 6 1/2 years ago. Its purpose in life was to be my dog & mountain bike hauler, and general purpose motorsports beater. I had planned on road trips, back road hooning, auto X, rally X, HPDEs and hopefully a trip to the challenge.

I bought it from a friend that runs an all SAAB indie shop. He bought the car as a non running parts car in a lot of cars from a dealer in another state. When they took the car off the trailer, it started and ran just fine. It was complete, and not overly grungy or rusty. He knew that I was looking for a c900 turbo, so he called me up and offered it to me for not much more than he had into it.

I bought it knowing fully that it would have problems that we didn't know about. After all, all c900s do, weather they cost $500 or $5000. The problem popped up after a few days. It had a weak head gasket. No milkshake in the oil or violent boil over, but it pressurized the cooling system instantly. No problem though, I bought a head gasket kit from my friend, and he let me pull a head from a totaled car that had a known good engine before he sent it to the crusher. A week later it was back on the road and all seemed well.

Then the cheapo aftermarket cat blew apart, which was really odd since the rest of the exhaust was oem and completely rust free. No problem, I knew where to get a perfectly good used oe cat. Problem solved.

Next the real trouble started. It started randomly not starting. But whenever I could find some time to trouble shoot it, it would start and run perfectly !? Finally after more than a year of chasing that issue I found a wire terminal with a bad crimp (from the factory ), in the block that the fuel pump relay plugs into. Based on that finding, and a cascade of other irritating electrical problems I've concluded that the wire harness must have been made at 3pm on a friday before a holiday weekend by a worker previously employed by VW. No other SAAB that I have ever owned has had this many electrical problems, and its not biodegradable wires, its bad workmanship.

Then there was the starter that lost its nose cone down into the bellhousing.

The boost controller that never worked right (wire harness again).

The alternator kept chucking belts.

The big bolt on the belt tensioner that mysteriously ejected itself.

The three master cyls that I had to go through to get one that worked right and didn't leak.

The electric cooling fans that never worked on really hot days (wire harness again).

The flakey fuel level gauge that finally quit this past summer. Now the thing is, in between all these problems it had periods when it ran brilliantly. Until recently I never stopped being optimistic that the flow of problems and chronic down time would end. I've squirreled away a collection of performance bits that if all put together on a car that ran right, would definitely make it propperly fast street car, and still be within a $20xx challenge budget.

Things seed to be going well with it this past spring and summer, I even got to take it on a short road trip through central PA farm country back in August. It was great ! Endless winding and rolling rural roads with the turbo spooled up for miles at a time.

Then the very next day it was back to its old miserable broken self. The battery was stone cold dead. I quickly diagnosed a shorted battery. It was a gell cell battery, and more than 5 years old, so I shouldn't have been surprised. I swapped in a battery from a different car just to move it out of the way, and was immediately greeted by a strong fuel odor. One of the hard plastic fuel lines cracked right by where it goes past the rear suspension. I tried to mend it, but on the first attempt the hose cracked again as soon as I pushed the hose barb fitting in. The second attempt went better, but weaps, so its not an acceptable repair. I feel like at this point I need to replace all the plastic fuel lines for it to be safe. And to add insult to injury the steering rack has

decided. to. leak all its all its fluid out while its been down.

.

.

.

.

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
10/25/13 8:08 a.m.

When the thought of getting it running is no longer appealing and you'd rather just cut your losses.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory Dork
10/25/13 8:10 a.m.

Run. Get while the gettin's (kinda) good. I mean why continue to get frustrated with a car you've owned for so long when you can be frustrated with a different car?

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
10/25/13 8:18 a.m.

I think the time to give up was right around the same time you realized that even a professional SAAB indie and expert was unloading at break even cost.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UberDork
10/25/13 8:20 a.m.

Yeah, sounds like time for a new project.

NOHOME
NOHOME Dork
10/25/13 8:26 a.m.

When it stops feeding, or fails to feed, the need you acquired it for.

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler Dork
10/25/13 8:33 a.m.

When the desire to keep driving and fixing it drops below your own personal threshold. Seriously, it's kind of an emotional, personal decision. If you're tired of it, move on. Life is too short, and there are too many other interesting cars out there.

It's a cool car, post it FS on here, someone else who's full of enthusiasm will buy it and use that motivation to do a bunch of work on it and get it squared away. At least it'll be in good hands.

HappyAndy
HappyAndy SuperDork
10/25/13 9:08 a.m.

What I'd really like to do is find another c900 in better condition and start all over with that one. Cheap Rust free to 900s are getting hard to find on the east coast these days.

I don't mind working on old cars to keep them going, but the wrenching to driving ratio on this car has been completely unacceptable, and it seems like there is no end in sight. Every time it get it running good it rewards me with another breakdown.

So I have been searching on and off for a better one, but so far haven't had any luck.

foxtrapper
foxtrapper PowerDork
10/25/13 9:19 a.m.

When I no longer enjoy the car, and dread going near it, it's time for that car and I to part company.

You can get some money for the car as it sits (and maybe runs) now. Abandoning it out behind the shed or such just means a money loss. Take the money and find a different Saab, if that's what you want.

ArthurDent
ArthurDent HalfDork
10/25/13 9:27 a.m.

I'd dump it - you have tried heroically to save it but sadly some cars just don't seem to want to live.

bludroptop
bludroptop SuperDork
10/25/13 9:38 a.m.

Every car deserves the enthusiasm of a new owner from time to time.

DrBoost
DrBoost PowerDork
10/25/13 9:38 a.m.

I know where you're coming from. You want out, but you don't want to off-load it only find out it runs great for years with the new owner. You know, that you fixed the last problem then sold it off. When it's gone from "this is gonna be fun when I get it up and running" to "AGAIN!?!? REALLY!?!? I'm sick and tired of working on this thing?" it might be time to cut your losses. Maybe have the GRM hive find you a car in the south-west and ship it??

ClemSparks
ClemSparks PowerDork
10/25/13 9:39 a.m.

I read the thread title and thought "when it's a Saab?" (joking...joking...I've never had one)

HappyAndy wrote: What I'd really like to do is find another c900 in better condition and start all over with that one. Cheap Rust free to 900s are getting hard to find... I have been searching on and off for a better one, but so far haven't had any luck.

Well...reading this, it sounds like you need to take a break from it and come back to it.

It sounds like you WANT a good example of this car. You've already replaced a lot of stuff toward getting it there, and probably know it inside and out (or will soon). Replace some fuel lines and bullet-proof the wiring in critical areas (Fuel, cooling, charging) so you trust it to get you home after a road trip.

You already said that any other one you get ($500 or $5,000) will have problems.

Stick with the devil you know.

Unless you don't want to. In that case, drop it like an '80s minitruck and find something you like.

I've CERTAINLY lost interest in cars I have and just wanted to start over...I get it.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory Dork
10/25/13 9:48 a.m.

Google "sunk cost" theory!

kb58
kb58 HalfDork
10/25/13 9:52 a.m.

That's easy: when it stops being fun. Sounds like you're there.

Markde
Markde New Reader
10/25/13 11:33 a.m.

Its funny because I had a similar experience with my 3 door c900. Also had exactly the opposite experience with my c900 vert.

bmwbav
bmwbav New Reader
10/25/13 12:45 p.m.

Have you done proactive improvements to the car? With the title, I expected to read about someone who got over their head with a "project" It sounds like you bought a cheap Saab and just drove it, forgive me if that's not the case. I wouldn't expect to buy any older European car at a low price and not be constantly fixing stuff unless I really went over it or I bought it from an enthusiast. Take a weekend and go through the problems, I'm sure there is a Saab "checklist" of stuff to fix/replace/improve.

Ian F
Ian F UltimaDork
10/25/13 1:04 p.m.

Hmm... a subject I know well... anyone wanna buy an E30?

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/200x-classifieds/1988-325is/72236/page1/

nocones
nocones SuperDork
10/25/13 1:13 p.m.

I know the feeling. I've typed and nearly posted a FS post for the MG about 8 times in the last 2 years.

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
10/25/13 1:15 p.m.

Hmm... a subject I know well...

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/build-thread-for-the-72-gmc-finally-thanks-john/59103/page32/

I'm on page 32 and year 4 (well, not really that many years actually wrenching on it)

dj06482
dj06482 Dork
10/25/13 1:19 p.m.

I've found cases where I'm better off letting it sit for a while until I'm ready to start in again, times when I'm better off just continuing to slog through, and times when I cut bait. A lot depends on how much you like that particular car. It sounds like you've worked through a bunch of issues and the next owner might have a better experience with the same car. If you can stomach working through the remaining items, you just may get to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

JoeyM
JoeyM Mod Squad
10/25/13 2:11 p.m.
z31maniac wrote: When the thought of getting it running is no longer appealing and you'd rather just cut your losses.

This. The only reason I DON'T give up is because I think of how cool it will be to drive in the end. There have been times when I've stalled for a few months, but the end goal made me start up again[*]. If you don't see that light at the end of the tunnel it will be difficult to make progress.

--
* - remember, my goal was/is to design and make a car from scratch....make it myself without using anybody else's plans. If your goal is a nicely sorted track car, YMMV. If you need the car to be scorchingly fast, and it is obvious that your goal has deviated from the path, it may be worth unloading.

NGTD
NGTD Dork
10/25/13 3:51 p.m.
DrBoost wrote: Maybe have the GRM hive find you a car in the south-west and ship it??

From everything I have read and the fact that Atlanta seems to be the Pot of Gold of used cars (south east or south west) - that it is your answer right there.

"Pump it and dump it" - then get a nice southern car.

aussiesmg
aussiesmg MegaDork
10/25/13 4:46 p.m.

LSx, really that would rock

fasted58
fasted58 PowerDork
10/25/13 11:03 p.m.

You'll know it in your gut when you get to that point.

I know it well.

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