I've got no real tech, but the cougar (early 90s?) my friend brought to the back 40 had a 5 bolt pattern that was NOT the 5 on 4.5 pattern. Much smaller.
That probably only muddied the waters (not to mention perpetuating a hijack of my own thread...lol)
Clem
ReverendDexter wrote: If you go T45, make *damn* sure to put an aftermarket shifter on it - T45s don't have internal shift stops, and I've bent a shift fork because of it. And I don't think that's the right bolt pattern. The Lincoln should use the same 5x4.5 that Mustangs do (5x114.3 for you metric types). The only 4.25 inch bolt pattern I'm aware of Ford using is the 4x4.25 used by the Foxbody chassis (the Probe may use a 4.25 pattern, too, but that's a Mazda and therefore doesn't count)
Lincoln Mark VIII, Ford Thunderbird, Mercury Cougar, Ford Taurus, Mercury Sable and almost all Volvos use 5x108/5x4.25 bolt circle.
ClemSparks wrote: I'm still torn on this theoretical choice. On one hand I want the fun of the SC400. On the other hand, I want the cheap of the P71 (buy-in and maintenance). There's a real conflict between fun and money here... Clem
how is the P71 not fun? the drivetrain from a Mustang and a suspension designed for running over medians, that's fun right there!
belteshazzar wrote: how is the P71 not fun? the drivetrain from a Mustang and a suspension designed for running over medians, that's fun right there!
I can't disagree with you there.
It just seems that the HP/Weight ratio of the SC400 will pretty much gaurantee that it would be more furn for me personally.
I have experience with Panther bodies (in the back 40). They are comfy and ride great. That's never been high on my list of wants.
I've never had car with a very desirable hp/weight ratio. My '83 Z28 with lowpo V8 and a 5 speed being the best of the bunch. Actually...maybe the Miata has/had a better ratio. So I would probably be satiated for a while with the P71.
I very much like the "walk into parts store with not much cash and come out with parts the same day" aspect of the P71.
I guess it's totally personal choice at this point. I need to find a local dealer with an SC400 to let me test drive. I WON'T be buying from a dealer on principle, but I suppose I can get a test drive ;).
Clem
I wonder how many power related parts are available for ford mod-motors relative to the 1UZ.
A J-mod for the 4r70w will set you back less than $100 and works brilliantly. How much is a shift kit for the Lexus?
I got a used set of 3.73's to put in my factory LSD diff for $50. How much does it cost to get another ratio for the Lexus and how many options are there?
Four Bilstein HD's for my P71 was less than $300. Is that about the same as the SC?
But I already know that the P71 will be vastly less expensive to maintainify. I don't see that as anything but a given.
I wouldn't plan to modify either car. However, when parts wear out and the upgrades are as cheap or cheaper than stock replacements (or just make sense...shocks, etc)...then they may get "maintainified."
Clem
In reply to ClemSparks:
Yes but when you're drunk relevance goes out the window for awosomeness lol
SC all the way. It will make the daily drive much more comfy and fun.
"maintainified."
Clem just added a new word to my vocabulary, and a useful one to boot.
Fit_Is_Slo wrote: In reply to ClemSparks: Yes but when you're drunk relevance goes out the window for awosomeness lol
Now I get it 
Love it...
Clem
Jake wrote:"maintainified."Clem just added a new word to my vocabulary, and a useful one to boot.
I'm rather impressed with it myself, actually.
Maintainify:
v. [etymology: Combination of "maintain" and "modify"]
to modify a vehicle with aftermarket and/or performance parts or upgrades during maintenance due do convenience, availability, or monetary reasons.
First let me say that my response may be biased, as I am a very satisfied Lexus SC owner. I have had my car for about 6 years and love it so much that I have actually sold it and bought it back. My car is a 1995 SC300 5-speed, but I have actually owned a 1992 SC400 as well. Needless to say I would choose the SC400, but I DO actually like P71s as well and have driven my friends P71 multiple times.
If you can manage to find a manual transmission sc300 I would personally pick that up over an sc400. Manual transmissions are a very important aspect of any car for myself personally, but manual SC300s are very rare. For example in 1995 they made 18,872 SCs total but only 793 5 speeds.
Price: Its incredible how cheaply you can pick up SC400s these days. I have seen clean examples for as low as a few grand. Considering they were 40K+ new that is a lot of car for the money. One thing to keep in mind while you are looking at SCs is that a "cheap" car could potentially end up costing you a lot more than a cleaner example that is a little more expensive.
This is due to some of the more common problems they have as they get older. A cheap example likely has bad ball joints(which are a part of the lower control arm). Replacement LCAs are $700 a side for Lexus parts, but you can run Supra LCAs and they go for about half as much. Cheaper examples are likely to also have bad bushings, burnt out clusters, cracked or split leather and split door panels(VERY common). Also look out for power steering leaks. Luckily for the door panels and other OEM parts there are a couple of vendors on club lexus that are constantly parting out SCs. You can get just about any part you need for a very reasonable price. The clusters can be redone by LexTech for pretty cheap. For bushings your best bet is to go poly. I recently put all poly bushings on my car, the kit was about $350 for everything.
Reliability: SC400s are extremely reliable cars. The 1UZ motors can easily run for 300K+. As with most cars I would look for complete maintenance records. I have put 80K on my SC300 while I have owned it and had no problems except for routine maintenance and things I broke racing. If you keep up on the maintenance the car will treat you very well! I put 15K on my SC400 in about a year and never had to fix anything on that car.
Power: SC400s have plenty of power for a nice smooth DD. They are by no means extremely fast but usually can run about a 15 flat in the 1/4 bone stock. 98 up cars have more power 290 hp vs 250 hp due to the VVTI, I also believe they have a 5 speed auto instead of a 4.
If you are looking for more power there are PLENTY of options! You can modify the 1UZ(www.lextreme.com), or you can swap in a 2JZ-GTE or 1JZ-GTE, or you can drop in a 4.7L 2UZ bottom end and use the 1UZ top end and ECU for plenty of usable power.
Looks: In my opinion the Lexus SC300/400s are one of the best looking cars to EVER come out of Japan, or any country for that matter.
Fuel Economy: Surprisingly good for a V8. The 1UZ was incredibly engineered and people get about 19/24. My SC400 actually got slightly better gas mileage than my SC300 5 speed.
Maintenance: Both the SC300 and SC400 are easy to work on and parts are easy to come by. I have never had problems walking into an autoparts store and getting exactly what I need! Parts are not super over priced either for the most part, I am sure the P71 would be cheaper to maintain however.
Fun to drive: The SC really shines in this area. There are tons of suspension and braking mods out there that can really make it even more fun to drive. Even when my car had only spring/shocks/tires it was a blast to drive and could keep up with just about anybody on the back roads! They are also really comfortable to drive. I have taken my SC300 from Portland to LA four times. I am 6'2" and 220 lbs and I fit like a charm, there is plenty of extra room for bigger drivers as well. The back seat is worthless, although I have fit 3 girls back there several times haha.
As far as the auto tranny issue you can swap in a manual tranny. With some modification you can run a getrag 6 speed, w58 or R154! If you do a search on Club Lexus you can find some threads with more info on the manual tranny swap, there also is some info on lextreme. An SC400 with a manual would be a ton of fun, I wish they have produced cars with those options in the first place!
As far as forums the biggest one by far is Club Lexus (www.clublexus.com). There is also a forum on lextreme. I spend a lot of time on Supra Forums because the two cars are so similar. Another good forum is an Australian forum that I prefer to Club Lexus because people there actually race their SCs/Soarers, www.soarercentral.com. You can also check out www.clubna-t.com for info on going turbo.
As was already mentioned the Lexus SC has a chassis that is extremely similar to the MKIV supra. The supra was built off of the SC/Soarer chassis, the supra is just like 3-4 inches shorter. Many parts swap over form the supra. Subframes bolt right up, most suspension pieces, brakes, drivetrain, seats, etc. I have many Supra parts on my SC.
If I were you I would buy an SC400 and never look back. If you do buy one, I am sure you will love the car! I originally bought my car as a daily driver and had an NX2000 as a race car. My SC has actually taken the role of fun car and I purchased a different DD. If you have any more questions I would be happy to help you out!
Josh
Josh,
Are you in the Portland area? I'd love to take a ride in your SC300 and am more than willing to trade for a spin in my modified P71.
I've got no personal experience with either car, but let me toss this out there... Why limit yourself between just those two cars? My older brother bought an '01 Lexus IS300 for $500 that was wrecked lightly. He got a new Hood, Radiator, and Headlights. Total investment $1700. and sold it for $5500 and got a '99 Grand Prix that had a broke cam in the deal. Just saying that all sorts of crazy deals are out there, just gotta know where to look and get lucky... I bought a '92 3000GT VR-4 for $2000 and the only issues I ever had were leaking oil cooler hoses, a bad alternator, and a broke passenger side window regulator. To remedy these issues, my little brother found a '92 Stealth RT/TT that one of his friends had. I ended up with the Stealth for $100 and a $100 Laptop!!!! I'm about to start lookinng for some more good deals too!!! Just my $.02
PS I miss that Miata too!!!
I have had a 1995 SC400 black with black interior with over 200k miles on it for the last four years. The previous owner removed the cracked tan leather and replaced it with black leather seats with perforated center sections from a 1999 SC400.
I've got 95-00 LS400 four-piston brake calipers and bigger rotors. Also a set of 17" Konigs with Hankook summer tires and some LS400 wheels with Blizzaks for winter. With the coilovers the car is too low for snow and I have other cars so I don't mess with it.
I have Bilstein HD shocks from a MkIV Supra, coilover sleeves and springs from Hypertech. This is the so-called gixxer_drew suspension setup. The ride is firm but acceptable with this setup. The car has more grip than I feel comfortable using on the street.
Truth be told I like the ride/handling balance on my 1998 Ford ZX2 with ZX2 S/R struts and some ebay lowering springs. I have had that suspension setup on a 1991 Escort GT, a 1991 Mercury Tracer LTS and this car.
The ratio in the rear end takes a lot of the fun away. I am pretty sure you can swap in center sections from Supras.
I haven't done a lot of maintenance on the car besides oil changes and suspension and brakes. The procedure for the timing belt looks like a pain in the bottom. Mine is a pre-VVT motor so if the belt breaks there is no permanent damage. VVT motors need to have their belts changed pre-emptively or it gets expensive.
I find the car to be pretty thirsty. I get about 16 mpg driving around town and maybe 22 on the highway at speeds around 75 mph.
I would rather have had one with a five-speed. There is a conversion kit for the V-8.
P71 wrote: Josh, Are you in the Portland area? I'd love to take a ride in your SC300 and am more than willing to trade for a spin in my modified P71.
I am in the Portland area, I live on the west side in the suburbs. I am definitely willing to give you a ride! If you are interested once we have some better weather you could join me for a cruise on the back roads out here, I know some pretty good roads and I am always looking for somebody to drive with!
I would actually prefer a ride in your rx7! I have no experience with 1st gens but I am thinking about buying one to turn into my dedicated race car... Go ahead and shoot me a PM and we can figure something out!
Josh
Josh,
Wait till you see the RX-7 all done up for next season in STR It's lower and meaner than ever 
Ok, it seems we also forgot anther good point of a P71,..Road trip's I went from OH to NC in my P71. I was able to get 22.1 mpg's. I was normal doing about 10mph over the limit too. Yes it did part the sea, felt great taking the ben's at speed aswell. btw it was comfy to
my 0.02
dansxr2 wrote: I've got no personal experience with either car, but let me toss this out there... Why limit yourself between just those two cars? My older brother bought an '01 Lexus IS300 for $500 that was wrecked lightly. He got a new Hood, Radiator, and Headlights. Total investment $1700. and sold it for $5500 and got a '99 Grand Prix that had a broke cam in the deal. Just saying that all sorts of crazy deals are out there, just gotta know where to look and get lucky... I bought a '92 3000GT VR-4 for $2000 and the only issues I ever had were leaking oil cooler hoses, a bad alternator, and a broke passenger side window regulator. To remedy these issues, my little brother found a '92 Stealth RT/TT that one of his friends had. I ended up with the Stealth for $100 and a $100 Laptop!!!! I'm about to start lookinng for some more good deals too!!! Just my $.02
Classic case of "know your poster" here...
Dude...I'm the king of cheapass cars and wheeling dealing. Ok...not the king on this board, but certainly in my small circle.
If I hadn't thought deeply about it, I would not have posted a question regarding these two cars which are, for most intents and purposes, very different.
Not that I don't appreciate your effort, but 75% of the cars you listed have ZERO interest to me as is clearly stated in my original post.
SO anyway...I guess what I'm saying is that I know very well about scoring good deals on cars. I drive a $200 car for the last years that was paid for 5X by corporate mileage reimbursement.
I pretty much wanted input on the two cars in questions. Without having to trade a laptop.
Ok...drinking whiskey and posting isn't probably a worthy activity. My appologies in advance if I came across corner-carverish.
Clem
Yeah...I'll blame the whiskey, but not delete the post...
Clem
ClemSparks wrote: Ok...drinking whiskey and posting isn't probably a worthy activity. My appologies in advance if I came across corner-carverish. Clem
Drinking whiskey - a worthy activity.
Posting on GRM - a worthy activity.
What's the problem?
P71 wrote: Then laugh all the way to the bank as you pick up a clean, single-color, no holes 01-02 for under $2K.
Alright P71...tell me where!
If I could find one that meets this description sometime in the next month, I would VERY likely pull the trigger, buy a plane ticket, and drive it home.
Thanks!
Clem
patgizz wrote: the biggest thing is value for price. you can get a 90-100k mile 4-5 year old car for the same price as a 150k mile 15 year old lexus.
I'm thinking this is what it is going to come down to. A worry-free (maintenance wise) car that I can buy without a loan...or a Lexus that is NOT the cream of the crop for more money than the P71.
I think finances will win this battle for now.
The good thing is that I can look to the SC400 in the future...I'll still want one!
Clem
Make P71 supply you with leads on these 02 P71's for under $2000. That should be the new rule; if you post that they're out there, provide the proof and make sure it's actionable.
That's my idea, who's with me?
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