When to cut my losses

So I have this 2005 Saab 9-2x Linear (rebadged Subaru Impreza wagon) that was generously given to me by a fellow GRMer JShaawbaru for use as a rally car and winter driver. I paid him $200 for some optional bits, put $500 into new rubber on it, and $1,700 into repairs after my rally exposed the rusted front control arm's condition and everything else that broke from that, and then proactively replacing the other side, which I was able to drive a screwdriver through (sorry, SnapOn).

The alternator is going bad ($85 to do myself) and I just found out that the right front wheel hub is bad ($200ish + $80 alignment) or $450 to have it done.

Right now I'm sitting at $2,410. Fixing these would put me at $3,000. I would say that I had still come out ahead, but this is on a car with a leaking head gasket (a quart in 200 miles) and 261,000 miles. I *personally* wouldn't spend $3k on a car with a 261k and a head gasket leak, which is how I see it. On the other hand, if I don't fix this I can't sell it for much of anything AND the phrase "drive it till the wheels fall off" may mean, quite literally "drive it until next thursday".

Thoughts?

And also this is post 1,000 for me since I re-joined in mid 2018. Wow. I spend as much time on here as my wife thinks I do, apparently.

I have this discussion with myself all the time. I guess it's just part of buying cheap cars. I have learned over time that I am happiest when I think of these kind of repairs as rent vs a mortgage. While owning property will usually give you some kind of return, or at least get you most of your money back, cars don't work that way. Unless you happen to be holding on to a mecum Saturday night car anyway. ......

rent on the other hand is money spent to use something. You aren't getting it back. So are the expenses you are up against worth the enjoyment/ productivity/ whatever you are getting out of it? If the answer is yes. Keep fixing it. If not, eh, you moved. The rent is spent money, get what you can out of your remnants.

Cut your losses & sell it to a Subaru fan. There are many out there, why I'll never know. Our daughter has a similar issue with her 06 Baja Turbo. Has even more issues than yours since it's a turbo. I like cars but I really dislike all Subarus after they stopped the 2.2. 

My philosophy is: $1000 per year.

If you're into it for 6 grand, will you keep it for 6 years?

If your heart isn't in it anymore, sell it.  You can keep fixing a E36 M3box that you love far longer than you probably should, but a 'Meh" car you'll eventually resent.

Isn't there a blue devil head gasket fix that folks rave about?  A quart every 200 miles is a pretty solid leak, I probably wouldn't invest a ton more in it unless I could get that under control. 
 

I also try to look at what it would cost to replace it with something else, and I budget $1k to $1.5k for repairs on any new car I buy.  If/when more stimulus money comes in (especially with tax returns), the used car market could jump up, especially on the low end.

Do you enjoy the car?  Any other rust to worry about?  

And just be forewarned, I'm usually on the wrong side of the sell it vs. keep it equation. I get that decision wrong a lot :-)

I figure any used car will need a certain amount of repairs per year, generally about $1500ish, but it's a sliding scale with rollover from previous years.   If you buy a different car, you might be buying someone else's deferred repairs, or other things that they got 90% of the life out of.

I've always been a fan of "the devil you know".   But jeez, fix the oil leak before the car catches fire.

I don't buy new cars, I drive used trucks and have a philosophy that has worked for me. I pay cash when I buy a DD and budget $100/month during ownership for maintenance excluding tires. Basically $1200/year for wear & tear/repairs instead of a car payment. If at the end of the year I haven't spent the $1200, then I keep it for another year. It's pretty simple, seems to work for me and keeps me from having a car/truck payment and dealing with the depreciation of new car ownership. This system worked so well, I just sold my 2005 Toyota Tundra with 276,000 miles on it. It keeps me doing lots of routine maintenance and making sure the DD just keeps on going.

You're currently at $2400. Sell it as is for $500 and that means you did a cool race/event with a car that only cost you $1900. Back out a little bit more for other driving and its closer to $1500. 

If you don't want this car to use again in more events then send it packing and find some fun in another car. 

I'd go over it with a fine tooth comb, or your Snap-On screwdriver and poke and prod everything. It's pretty likely there's a lot more rot. In that case I'd bail, but if it isn't overly rotten how much life does it have left for the incremental expense. Previous expensesare sunk money at this point.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

Control arms and U member were an extremely common failure.  Fortunately all that stuff bolts in.

I'd reach into the rear wheelwells and feel the inner fender on the "outside" of the strut tower.  There is a shelf there that doesn't get painted well, dirt and moisture collect, and it rusts out.  Extremely common on GCs and GDs.  If THAT area is solid, the car is worth any amount of money and frustration to keep mobile.  Speaking as someone from where it was normal for Subarus to be unsafe from chassis rust after ten years.

P3PPY said:

So I have this 2005 Saab

This is how far I got before I thought, yes, cut your losses.

I'd cut losses.  You should be able to find a college kid/mechanic who needs a car and wants to fix it up.

When you have to ask

I've had a few high mileage Subaru's (332,000 and 291,000) that I cut losses on and sold for $1,500.  I could have stuck with it, but I got tired of working on both of them.  New owners were more than happy to keep them running and I've never regretted selling them.  Sell it.

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) said:

My philosophy is: $1000 per year.

If you're into it for 6 grand, will you keep it for 6 years?

Thank you for this. I miss my manual xB dearly, it was a slow, engaging cockroach with more utility then anything has the right to have. But after the accident it would have cost 1700 book time to fix, prior to any supplements. Grabbing parts of the yard and doing the paintwork myself I'm confident that I could have fixed it before between 9-1,200, which meant that if I were to have bought it back I have had just about enough to cover expenses to fix it on my own, not taking my time into consideration of course. But I still would have had a vehicle with a flag title, 247,000 mi, in need of a new AC compressor (which I had). 

I miss the damn thing, but it wasn't worth saving. I appreciate that reminder. 

Another thought...  What is the tax situation when buying another car?

A decent chunk of how I justify fixing old vs. buying another, is not having to pay sales tax.

Mostly I buy something else when either the car I have rusts to the point of being unsafe, or I get Oooh Shiny syndrome.  (Which is where I sold my Golf when I got my Quantum, and offloaded the S40 when I got the S60R.  Five cylinder all wheel drive is more important than fix old, I suppose)

In reply to P3PPY : My rule for replacing a vehicle is three months in a row where repairs ( not normal maintenance ) exceeds the payment on a new vehicle it's time to let it go.  
Well maintained trucks and cars should last 20 years 240,000+ miles  before that happens. If they fail my standard they aren't up to modern standards and should be avoided in the future  

Transportation is something we will need all of our adult life.  There comes a point where buying used is foolish. When you calculate the money spent, time spent fixing older cars they don't look so cheap.  I bought my first new car in 1972. In retrospect they have been good value. Freeing my repair time up for more important and profitable tasks. 
 

Let me be clear. I earned my living as a mechanic. I know how to beat flat rate and make a decent living.  I still love working on cars. But now I do it for the fun, not to get to work tomorrow.  As a hobby a car can sit neglected until money and time are available. 
     

When you're constantly working on a car just to keep it on the road, it's time to get rid of it.

frenchyd said:

In reply to P3PPY : My rule for replacing a vehicle is three months in a row where repairs ( not normal maintenance ) exceeds the payment on a new vehicle it's time to let it go.  
Well maintained trucks and cars should last 20 years 240,000+ miles  before that happens. If they fail my standard they aren't up to modern standards and should be avoided in the future  

Transportation is something we will need all of our adult life.  There comes a point where buying used is foolish. When you calculate the money spent, time spent fixing older cars they don't look so cheap.  I bought my first new car in 1972. In retrospect they have been good value. Freeing my repair time up for more important and profitable tasks. 
 

Let me be clear. I earned my living as a mechanic. I know how to beat flat rate and make a decent living.  I still love working on cars. But now I do it for the fun, not to get to work tomorrow.  As a hobby a car can sit neglected until money and time are available. 
     

This. ^^^^^

You can even reduce it down a bit farther and look at what you'd have in payments for an entry-level Kia or Hyundai with a 10-year/100k warranty. I just looked at the Hyundai Accent SE, 6-speed manual, 15,995 + TTL. Just running the numbers quickly for my credit score, with a $2k down payment I can see payments would be $250-300/month depending on if a 48-month or 60-month note.

$600 in additional repairs is already two car payments. Would you rather work on a rust bucket on your days off? Or have a car you can autocross and that starts every time you get in it and has a warranty (i.e., if it breaks it's someone else's problem)? In 4-5 years it'll be paid off and you'll still likely have warranty left on it (unless you're driving 20k+ a year). 

Daily transportation is simply not optional for most folks. One of the smartest financial moves you can make is to secure the most reliable transport possible. 

The decision of the board seems to be to cut losses and I’m okay with that. I took a drive down half a mile of snowy/muddy dirt driveway today and suddenly I’m all like OH YEAH RALLYING IS THE BEST!!! and that made me do some thinking about truly important things that have happened and whether this car still has a role to play.

The POR rally really hit my family hard in a number of ways, obviously financial but also time, as well as feelings of neglect for my wife with the newborn and two little ones while I’m gone all day having fun and then add another day while the incapacitated car and I are getting rescued.

I have a bit of a balancing act now. We had some hard conversations and I have committed to being the one who proactively keeps the family’s needs in mind, yet also certain personal events this week have [reminded me that I am/have pushed me more towards] getting depressed living in this barren, lifeless wasteland, away from almost everyone and everything I’ve ever known and loved, and the values I cherish. Sooooo sometime this week I may broach a conversation with her about what kinds of options we have for time/money of doing another rally, just not as big. If it’s a possibility then I’m more inclined to prioritize the cost for repairs on it because:racecar. Otherwise, hive mind has spoken. 

P3PPY said:

The decision of the board seems to be to cut losses and I’m okay with that. I took a drive down half a mile of snowy/muddy dirt driveway today and suddenly I’m all like OH YEAH RALLYING IS THE BEST!!! and that made me do some thinking about truly important things that have happened and whether this car still has a role to play.

The POR rally really hit my family hard in a number of ways, obviously financial but also time, as well as feelings of neglect for my wife with the newborn and two little ones while I’m gone all day having fun and then add another day while the incapacitated car and I are getting rescued.

I have a bit of a balancing act now. We had some hard conversations and I have committed to being the one who proactively keeps the family’s needs in mind, yet also certain personal events this week have [reminded me that I am/have pushed me more towards] getting depressed living in this barren, lifeless wasteland, away from almost everyone and everything I’ve ever known and loved, and the values I cherish. Sooooo sometime this week I may broach a conversation with her about what kinds of options we have for time/money of doing another rally, just not as big. If it’s a possibility then I’m more inclined to prioritize the cost for repairs on it because:racecar. Otherwise, hive mind has spoken. 

If I was you, I'd do exactly what you're doing. Me, being me, spend as much as you're into your car sometimes months in a row on one car in consumables and parts breaking etc. my wife and kids never bat an eye. There is a balancing act with family, hobbies and expenses that needs to be met. But if you're feeling guilty about being gone for one or 2 days for one random event that happened one time I would look into yourself a bit more and find what your true desires are. 
In my situation, my wife doesn't want to go to the track almost ever. So when I don't see her and the family for more than 1 hour a day for a week getting prepared. I try to make extra time and effort the 1-2 weeks after the track event is over. And those times when I'm consciously engaged and extra careful not to get lost in my phone etc are really great times we have. 
just something to think about... 

id also in your situation throw on a wheel hub and then test drive. I bet the alignment is unchanged saving you $80. 

P3PPY said:

The decision of the board seems to be to cut losses and I’m okay with that. I took a drive down half a mile of snowy/muddy dirt driveway today and suddenly I’m all like OH YEAH RALLYING IS THE BEST!!! and that made me do some thinking about truly important things that have happened and whether this car still has a role to play.

The POR rally really hit my family hard in a number of ways, obviously financial but also time, as well as feelings of neglect for my wife with the newborn and two little ones while I’m gone all day having fun and then add another day while the incapacitated car and I are getting rescued.

I have a bit of a balancing act now. We had some hard conversations and I have committed to being the one who proactively keeps the family’s needs in mind, yet also certain personal events this week have [reminded me that I am/have pushed me more towards] getting depressed living in this barren, lifeless wasteland, away from almost everyone and everything I’ve ever known and loved, and the values I cherish. Sooooo sometime this week I may broach a conversation with her about what kinds of options we have for time/money of doing another rally, just not as big. If it’s a possibility then I’m more inclined to prioritize the cost for repairs on it because:racecar. Otherwise, hive mind has spoken. 

Years ago, I was about to start prepping my E36 328is for track work.  I had purchased some parts, and was about to buy some more when I realized that the time and money I'd be putting into the car wasn't in line with my priorities.  That was my decision at the time, and might not be the right one foe you.  At the time, I had two boys, and we were trying to move to a house with a garage (we had a gravel driveway at the time).   
 

I ended up selling the car, the parts, and bought a PS3, a G27 wheel, and an Obutto racing seat.  That gave me some of the rush (it definitely doesn't compete with a track day!), where I was still close to my family, risks were low, and I was only going to spend a relatively small (and predictable) amount of money.

Every situation and person is different.  That was the right move for me at the time, and I haven't regretted it.  But, I also haven't been to a track day in 11 years, either :-(

z31maniac said:

P3PPY said:

So I have this 2005 Saab

This is how far I got before I thought, yes, cut your losses.

But seriously, if you are at the point you are asking others if you should cut your losses....................you've already made up your mind, you just need a little help.