When "what's that squeak?" becomes "how was this even working at all?"

The xjr has been squeaking a bit from the engine for a while now. Sounded a bit like an idler pulley or alternator bearing was on the way out. But it's been cold and not high on priority list. I had a few minutes today so I popped the hood to see if I could tell which pulley was the problem and get some parts on order.

Um... Well, there's that:

Guess I need to look a little closer. First, here's a shot of how to work on your jag. Do not forget the tea.

I started pulling off the belts (if you remove the fans first - two bolts and two electrical connectors - you have a lot more room to work). And wouldn't you know.

Yes, that is supposed to be one belt. Oh, and I think this is supposed to be an idler pulley.

So, now you might be where I was. How was this ever working at all? I'm trying to remember when the squeak started and it was months ago. No alternatior light, power steering has been fine. Must've been like this at least a thousand miles. Not a proud moment for me. 

But seriously, the squeak was faint enough that you could only hear it inside the car at idle. Start moving and road noise would cover it right up. Wow.

This is why every car should have a gutted interior and no stereo. The car is trying to talk to the driver, please stop muting it!

Aren’t flip forward hoods wonderful for working on the front of the engine?

I agree with the confusion of how that was even working. I see some Subarus come in with the wrong belt installed on the alternator. When the belt is too long it will rub a bolt head on the tensioner. The belt eventually separates much like yours but no noise. Have you completed the repair yet? If so, was this truly the source of the squeak? 

I'm also curious why the "R" has seem to left its home on the valve cover. You would think a problem with the "R" would be more of a grrrrowl sound....

Sorry, I'll place $1 in the bad joke jar now. 

What was that pulley made of!? Leather?

If I found that, I would be shouting at the car "that's not how this works, that is not how any of this works!" 

stanger_missle said:

What was that pulley made of!? Leather?

It’s a jaaaaaaaaaaggggg, it was either leather or wood!  ok, bad joke, bad joke 

I’d reuse that. Just make sure you install the belt so that it spins the same way as before it was removed. 

rustybuckets said:

stanger_missle said:

What was that pulley made of!? Leather?

It’s a jaaaaaaaaaaggggg, it was either leather or wood!  ok, bad joke, bad joke 

I was hoping somebody would make that joke. Well done

TurnerX19 said:

This is why every car should have a gutted interior and no stereo. The car is trying to talk to the driver, please stop muting it!

I'm pretty sure even jag race cars are quiet inside. Grace, pace, and space, after all.

Spoolpigeon said:

Aren’t flip forward hoods wonderful for working on the front of the engine?

Yes, but what is worse is that it is too low. Nothing to support yourself on so you end up killing the backs of your knees.

Supposedly the hood does have a service mode but I haven't figured it out yet.

appliance_racer said:

I agree with the confusion of how that was even working. I see some Subarus come in with the wrong belt installed on the alternator. When the belt is too long it will rub a bolt head on the tensioner. The belt eventually separates much like yours but no noise. Have you completed the repair yet? If so, was this truly the source of the squeak? 

 

I'm also curious why the "R" has seem to left its home on the valve cover. You would think a problem with the "R" would be more of a grrrrowl sound....

Sorry, I'll place $1 in the bad joke jar now. 

Parts are on the way in the mail. I'll update this thread when I get it back together. 

The r has been missing since I bought it. Previous owner I don't think ever had it either, he thought it was odd that is was missing. I think an idea is to paint (or vinyl, they are vinyl letters indeed) the r in red. Would look cool.

Pretty sure I'd have to call the car a jagua type r if I did that however.

EastCoastMojo said:

If I found that, I would be shouting at the car "that's not how this works, that is not how any of this works!" 

I should print this out and post it on my wall.

Slippery said:

I’d reuse that. Just make sure you install the belt so that it spins the same way as before it was removed. 

Which one? The skinny belt or the fat one? I'm not sure how to check which is in reuseable condition.

appliance_racer said:

I agree with the confusion of how that was even working. I see some Subarus come in with the wrong belt installed on the alternator. When the belt is too long it will rub a bolt head on the tensioner. The belt eventually separates much like yours but no noise. Have you completed the repair yet? If so, was this truly the source of the squeak? 

 

I'm also curious why the "R" has seem to left its home on the valve cover. You would think a problem with the "R" would be more of a grrrrowl sound....

Sorry, I'll place $1 in the bad joke jar now. 

Nah nah, the R isn't there because at home in England, it's pronounced "jeh-gwah". Pretty sure those are just EDM valve covers.

Service Position:

As taken from Jaguarforums.com

The 'service setting' on the hood allows the hood to sit vertical on its hinges. To achieve this setting, first disconnect the gas struts at the hood by inserting a narrow screwdriver into the ball-ends of the struts... it is easy once you find the spring clip end which will back off about half way.



When one strut is removed and laid on the fender liner; you will need to support the hood with a prop rod, something like a section of broom handle will work fine. Alternatively, you can put a soft item about the size of a paper towel roll up near the windshield to rest the hood on (to prevent the hood from resting on the disconnected strut rod). When both struts are disconnected, the hood can be raised to the vertical position. When at the vertical, observe the hinge sections and note there is a hole which when a pin is inserted in this position will prevent the hinge from closing.

Any sort of pin, phillips screwdriver, etc. will suffice to lock the hinge sections in this position. I use a pair of 12mm 1" bolts w/nuts to slip through and secure. The hood seems a little flimsy at first, but it locks tightly into place. This position was designed for the Jag line mechanics. Although I would not do this if working outdoors in a strong wind!

In reply to mad_machine :

That is for a car with a rear hinged bonnet. Robbie's R is front in the way hinged.

That I didn't know.. but I bet some of the advice still applies, If you remove the struts, I bet the bonnet will go to a full 90 degree upright position.

Parts arrived today (and mostly correct - I ordered a new supercharger belt even though I didn't really need one - and I got the right box with the wrong belt in it, doh), everything went back together a treat.

Test drive and squeaking went away. Quiet as a mouse again. Very nice.

Out of curiosity I looked at the hinges for the hood. They look like they could open more, but I don't see any holes to put a pin or bolt to hold the hood up. 

Also, I'm afraid that if the hood went up any further, the jags would kiss.

Robbie said:

Also, I'm afraid that if the hood went up any further, the jags would kiss.

If the Jags kiss, and you add a little assembly lube, maybe you might get some X-types, you know, little jags.

;-)

Lucky!

The N55 engine in my BMW is notorious for eating itself if the belt tensioner fails. Belt gets sucked through the front main seal and into the main/rod bearings.

In reply to z31maniac :

I...How...? 

At least the cooling system doesn't eat itself and your hood for lunch, I guess. 

In reply to z31maniac :

wow - that is... impressive

and somehow the jag is the one that ends up with the reliability stigma!

Robbie said:

 

So I'm pretty sure I know how this was at least working. You can't see in this picture, but the failed idler is basically right underneath the supercharger belt idler. When the bearing failed it melted away completely (and mostly got out of the way of the belt). The next closest thing for the belt to ride on is the crank pulley, albeit the belt was riding on the back of itself and in the opposite direction. The automatic tensioner had enough distance to keep the belt tight enough. 

And belt on belt action is probably what was squeaking...

sobe_death said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I...How...? 

At least the cooling system doesn't eat itself and your hood for lunch, I guess. 

The harmonic balancer is in front of the crank pulley vs behind it like on many other engines, so the slope of the back of pulley just funnels it right to the seal. 

That's why paying attention to the oil filter housing gasket is important. When it starts leaking, it leaks on the tensioner speeding up it's failure. Now this doesn't happen EVERYTIME the tensioner fails, but it's not just internet lore. I confirmed with my Indy guy before I bought the 135i. 

I just had him replace the OFHG on mine, they said the belt and tensioner were fine since the car had so low miles and had just started leaking. 

I'm very neurotic about overmaintaining my cars.