Which dream fast wagon: Audi RS6 Avant or Porsche Panamera Turbo S Sport Turismo?

dculberson said:

The Porsche is faster, more powerful, lighter, and doesn't have the engine hanging like an anvil out over the front bumper.

Is the engine position actually different? They're both high performance VWs that seem to share a whole lot of critical parts. Both AWD with the same engine and trans. Same front brakes. Wheelbase is within an inch. The Porsche is definitely lighter and more powerful, but a head to head test on how these two corporate cousins feel might not be super different.

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

dannyp84 said:

Are there any fast wagons that don't cost as much as a house? Even the CTS V wagon still goes for ~60k used last time I checked..

I'd say my current ride meets your requirement.  2015.5 Volvo V60 T6 R-Design with Polestar flash tune.  Not an actual Polestar, specifically the tune that was available from Volvo as new with warranty.  That gives it 325hp/354lb/ft.  Car and Driver recorded 0-60 in 4.9sec and the ¼ at 13.5 @ 105 for this exact spec.  Note the full Polestar edition only improved these numbers to 4.5 to 60 and 13.1@107 in the ¼ in a lighter body with approx an extra 25hp and tq.  I bought mine two years ago with 40 k miles for $20k even.  At that time the only actual Polestar I could find was $30k with over 50k miles.  I think I got a bargain, even though I bought it from a Volvo dealer.   I bet I could get close to, or even more than my purchase price back now with 85k miles on with the stupid used car market we have right now.

I'd say those specs are outstanding for a DD, I've shocked a lot of people being a middle aged guy in a white freaking Volvo wagon on on ramps etc.  It's pretty quick off the line, but it really shines in the 30-60 or 50-70 punch it range. Yes it's an auto, but you can select 'S' mode and it really firms up and quickens up the shifts as well as holding gears as you go through long sweepers.  You also have (nice tactile aluminum castings, not plastic) flappy paddles.  Again, this is a car that I would still have bought auto even if a manual was available.  

That's a pretty car, looks a bit smaller than the Audi/Porsche too. 

docwyte said:

Neither.  Much rather have a Mercedes E63S AMG wagon.  Both the Porsche and the Audi fail at doing the main thing you want a wagon to do, which is carry stuff.  They barely hold more stuff than a typical sedan, my Golf R holds almost as much as both of them! 

The AMG holds WAY more stuff than either the Audi or the Porsche, looks better than the Porsche and performs better than the Audi.  Winning!

What he said.

Between the two, I'd go Porsche. A lot of reviewers have picked the Audi despite being a bit slower, the consensus seems to be that it's the better driver. To me though, I got to ride in a Panamera GTS down the unrestricted autobahn and it sealed the desire for a Panamera for me forever.

If we are allowed to cast a wider net for a fast wagon, I'd skip over the Merc and land on this:

In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :

I'd skip the Mercedes as well but that's just because I deeply dislike Mercedes Benz as a company.

Except Unimogs.  But that's a different thread, not this one.

That Ferrari is hot.

The Euro version of the RS6 can tow up to 2100kg (4630 lbs).

In reply to STM317 :

I don't think they share a platform; the Porsche rides on the same platform as a couple Bentleys but no Audis that I could find. The weight distribution isn't that different though! Within 1% - I wouldn't have expected that. (Audi 55/45, Porsche 54/46)

Not the same platform.

"The Panamera sits on Porsche’s MSB platform, which underpins this Sport Turismo model and the Panamera hatch, unlike the RS 6, which uses the MLB evo architecture. "

Chris_V said:

dculberson said:

In reply to Chris_V :

16.5" brakes, 21" wheels... seems like they could put something at least a little smaller on there.

Brake rotor diameter is not the sum total of brake diameter. You are forgetting caliper clearance. Look at the picture of that front wheel on the one I posted. That caliper is hyuuuge.

 

I want a fast wagon but this also annoys the hell out of me. The first pot hole I hit in those stupid 21" wheels would be a new tire and wheel repair. 

I just want a fast modern drivetrain riding on 17" wheels. I get it, the brakes will be cooked on the track but I'm not going to be tracking a wagon. I'm going to be taking road trips, laying rubber, and hauling my stuff around. I only need one or two hard braking events at which point I'm going to back off and let the brakes cool off anyhow.

Aaron_King said:

docwyte said:

Neither.  Much rather have a Mercedes E63S AMG wagon.  Both the Porsche and the Audi fail at doing the main thing you want a wagon to do, which is carry stuff.  They barely hold more stuff than a typical sedan, my Golf R holds almost as much as both of them! 

The AMG holds WAY more stuff than either the Audi or the Porsche, looks better than the Porsche and performs better than the Audi.  Winning!

What he said.

Yuuuppp. Bonus points if you can ride backwards in the 3rd row to finger gun all the oncoming traffic out of the back glass.

Olemiss540 said:

Aaron_King said:

docwyte said:

Neither.  Much rather have a Mercedes E63S AMG wagon.  Both the Porsche and the Audi fail at doing the main thing you want a wagon to do, which is carry stuff.  They barely hold more stuff than a typical sedan, my Golf R holds almost as much as both of them! 

The AMG holds WAY more stuff than either the Audi or the Porsche, looks better than the Porsche and performs better than the Audi.  Winning!

What he said.

Yuuuppp. Bonus points if you can ride backwards in the 3rd row to finger gun all the oncoming traffic out of the back glass.

Came here to say this as well. Merc would be my choice. 

I'm actually hoping to trade the Golf R for an E63S AMG wagon this Spring

Porsche Taycan Sport Turismo GTS? I think it looks better than the Panamera

That sort of money and I would get a used Ferrari FF and as much warranty as I could buy. 
 

Honest answer is my ford  flex is just as fast in real world conditions and holds a ton more stuff. I will admit I did look as a rs6 at the dealer when my other Audi was getting serviced. At 40k adm over the sticker price there are a lot of other things I would buy. 

In reply to wearymicrobe :

I like the Ferrari FF and watched Doug Demuro's review of them.  Cool car, but not in the same as these wagons.  Not a 4 door and has much less cargo capacity then even these two wagons, let alone the E63. 

When Doug reviewed them he was saying you could get one for $100k or so.  Now that seems to be more like $150k or so, which prices them out of my reach to replace my 996 Turbo...

They are still trading in the 100K range as far as I know. Lots of asking prices up on them and they are not selling. I love the idea but the maintaince / repairs would kill you. 

In reply to wearymicrobe :

Basically every one of them listed for sale is $150k+.  Seems a little unrealistic for them to accept a $100k offer, at least to me? 

A friend of mine has a '16ish E63S wagon.  Brown.   He loves it but he had an expensive vacation recently when one of the brake hardlines failed in Maine (having driven from NJ).  If I got the story right, the coating fails where the lines bend, permitting corrosion and, eventually, failure.  Replacement at the local MB dealer would have been $3k and taken ages so he had it towed back home where his favored indy (guy works on his Elise and R32 GTR too!) dealt with it.

wearymicrobe said:

That sort of money and I would get a used Ferrari FF and as much warranty as I could buy. 
 

Honest answer is my ford  flex is just as fast in real world conditions and holds a ton more stuff. I will admit I did look as a rs6 at the dealer when my other Audi was getting serviced. At 40k adm over the sticker price there are a lot of other things I would buy. 

I was interested in a flex but remember reading they had driveline issues?

Could probably build this for a lot less than either of those 2 options and have something more unique.

In reply to 90BuickCentury :

IS that an Accord wagon?  I don't see one on the Honda website so I'm guessing no go in the USA.  Also does it have at least 350hp, preferably at least 400 and preferring to be closer to 500 and can it tow at least 3,300lb's?  IF not it doesn't fit.  

90BuickCentury said:

Could probably build this for a lot less than either of those 2 options and have something more unique.

That's very pretty, but Adrian points out the flaws above.  Plus it's a rendering, not an actual model.

Accord wagons typically are very pretty, even if not available in the US: