Which of these cars do I completely avoid - which do I investigate? FRS/Fiesta ST/E36 content

Evanuel9 said:

In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :

Yep, the 335i was twin turbo - neat but german complexity. THe 330i, IIRC, is just a 3 liter N54

The 330 is still an N52, just a different intake and tune - only difference. A lot of people with the 328's (like mine) are doing the 330 intake and a bimmerlabs tune to basically make a 330... 

In reply to Snrub :

Considered it, threw it off the list when i compiled my top three, but now that the top three have been vetoed they might be in the running again. Heard Speed3's can have some issues and prefer the 2 to the base 3. 8th gen si vs speed 3?

What about a 240sx. Threw it off the list very early because they were expensive and thrashed. Now that my budget is a bit higher would I be able to find one that isn't a thrashed piece of absolute E36 M3 in my budget? Strikes me as a 90s equivalent to an frs - 2+2 miata like the frs is a 2+2 miata

Evanuel9 said:

In reply to chknhwk :

Thank you - I think tire choice will probably be important - -I'm a big believer in proper tires. 

I do want to learn - I just want to have tons of fun doing it

Tires and brakes are the two biggest 'mods' IMO. When you think about it and really get down to it what are the two most important things that equate to actual car control? Four small contact patches (i.e. tires) and brakes. That's it. NEVER overlook the importance of what these two basic items are doing. 

Evanuel9 said:

In reply to John Welsh :

b-b-b-but the owner says it runs and drives!!! Lol

honestly, never cared for the 5 series. Luxo barges, even with power, never interested me. love the spec though and the v8 is great!

I do say this with a grain of salt and small amount of anecdotal evidence but don't overlook larger cars. I only say this because I have an affinity for smaller sedans but after owning and driving an '11 Jaguar XF a larger car can very easily hide it's weight with a capable chassis. I think BMW could do a good job of 'hiding' this weight. Granted consumables could conceivably be higher due to the weight but with the admitted lack of disposable income you'd most likely be relegated to autox vs track events. I'm my experience (and anybody feel free to chime in here), autox events are NOWHERE near the level of wear you'll get with an HPDE at a track like VIR or Mid-Ohio. I've heard you talk about 'consumables' several times in this thread but honestly if you're not going several high speed events a year I didn't think the consumables are going to be the issue I think you think they will be. Find something reliable and capable and enjoy. 

Evanuel9 said:

What about a 240sx. Threw it off the list very early because they were expensive and thrashed. Now that my budget is a bit higher would I be able to find one that isn't a thrashed piece of absolute E36 M3 in my budget? Strikes me as a 90s equivalent to an frs - 2+2 miata like the frs is a 2+2 miata

Most of the cheap ones have been used for drifting, and drifters do unspeakable things to cars. :)

"modern" ABS doesn't even have to be all that recent, the mk60 in my E46 M3 does all of the things I mentioned and it's 20 years old.

My friend, you are going around and around and around in circles.  You've been given our opinion on what the right answer is.  Trying to look at it from 100 different angles isn't going to change the picture.  You just need to pick what you want and move forward.  We all agree the cars you want most aren't a good idea, but the decision is yours to make.  Not saying this in any anger, just trying to help you stop the madness that must be going on in your head. 

You do not want a car from the 90s.  It is at least a quarter century old now. 

The 330 was the low end E90.  People who wanted speed bought a 335 or an M3.

In America, the 330i was only avalible in 2006 and was the flagship for the first year of the E90. The turbo came in 2007 and had way more power, and way more upkeep and maintenance costs. Identical interior features, and BMW decontented in the LCI  

In reply to bbbbRASS :

Yeah I am not, under any circumstances, considering a 335i.

By the way, did you get my email?

In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :

"My friend, you are going around and around and around in circles.  You've been given our opinion on what the right answer is.  Trying to look at it from 100 different angles isn't going to change the picture.  You just need to pick what you want and move forward.  We all agree the cars you want most aren't a good idea, but the decision is yours to make.  Not saying this in any anger, just trying to help you stop the madness that must be going on in your head. 

You do not want a car from the 90s.  It is at least a quarter century old now."

Took the thoughts right of my head yet again! 

In reply to CyberEric :

Y'all are no fun 😆 - madness seems a bit harsh. 

In all seriousness bbbbRASS's 330 is looking like the ticket. That's what I'm actively pursuing at the moment

I'd recommend a 14-17veloster turbo if we were going off the money and funness factors. 

bobzilla said:

I'd recommend a 14-17veloster turbo if we were going off the money and funness factors. 

Not going to lie but ive been searching for one as our next Champ Car. They are starting to really drop in price. Just wondering about keeping it together over a long period of time at race speeds. 

In reply to kevinatfms :

stay away from the 13's. thosewere the problem child.

When did the super invasive (undefeatable) stability control become present on those?  19?

In reply to bobzilla :

That was just a tune problem, no?  I'm surprised at how cheap Forte koups (same car) with the 1.6T are getting. I'm seeing them at a third of what I got for payout on mine only a couple years ago 

In reply to bobzilla :

Might give it a drive, it's quirky and I kind of forgot it exists. 

Peabody said:

In reply to bobzilla :

That was just a tune problem, no?  I'm surprised at how cheap Forte koups (same car) with the 1.6T are getting. I'm seeing them at a third of what I got for payout on mine only a couple years ago 

It's promising to me for a donor car. If I can get a running smacked up VT or Forte SX (Koup or hatch) for challenge money I'll make my own i20N, but as a sexier Kia. 

Evanuel9 said:

In reply to bobzilla :

Might give it a drive, it's quirky and I kind of forgot it exists. 

Veloster Turbo, 2nd gen (2014-2018)Kia Forte Koup SX, Forte5 SX and some Elantra Sport version all had the 1.6T and manual trans option. 3k lbs, fast enough to get into trouble, easy to repair, cheap parts, consumables are not crazy expensive etc. When you get bored, turn the boost up and add an LSD and they get really fun really fast. 

No, no, no, no.  Don't.  The Veloster is a good car, I like it.  That's not my point.  It's just going to add to the circle jerk and confusion.  You've got a good list.  Pick one and go. 

In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :

I already have - i emailed bbbbRASS about his e90. If that doesnt go anywhere ill have to reassess. 

Hey Evanuel,

I say this with grace, zero judgment whatsoever, and only the accumulated "wisdom" I have from being in your position only a few years ago. I have a few thoughts, some in general and some regarding the BRZ.

• I think it's worth tilting your budget away from track-oriented stuff for now and just getting in a better car from the get go. You can budget to do an event or two per year, but I think it's worth getting a car you know will last, one without a shady ownership history and so forth.
• Your E36 instincts are spot on, but these aren't cars you want to own at your stage in life. Again, I speak from experience - I did it twice. You want something you know will start, won't require some new fix every month, won't leave you overheated by the side of the I-278 toll plaza (ask me how I know). They're fantastic cars, but they require time and money that might be better spent elsewhere. The 318s are good cars - they were the first car I ever raced in, but they still have those E36 quirks. It will make you a better mechanic and driver, but the BRZ will make you a better driver and cause fewer gray hairs.
• Before you even get on track, I'd look into autocross! Any of the cars you mentioned will do well there and will be a blast... ok the Fiesta ST terrifies me, but the others are great. I had a quicker steering rack in my old E36 M3 which made it a much more enjoyable experience. The 4cyl E36s will be a blast too - no question there. Your track experiences will be much more rewarding with some accumulated autocross experience, IMO.

Regarding the BRZ paranoia...

• I see it both ways - some people are right to be a bit McCarthy about the whole thing. These motors can't take abuse like a VQ or M52, but they are often abused in the same way because the cars are relatively cheap and accessible.
• That said, a high mileage, high-stressed car is not necessarily a death sentence. This is where with used performance cars, you're often buying the previous owners more than the car itself. I picked up a ~95k mile BRZ with a good ownership history, and the car now has ~140k miles and over a dozen autocrosses and 2 track days to its name. All I've done is peace of mind mods like an oil cooler, some brake work, and a bit more front camber.
  • I've seen some stock-ish motors fail on track, no question. But (anecdotally, from lived experience and from the track groups I'm in), many people that have had issues have high aero cars with grippy tires, etc. They're really pushing these things. If you're just getting on track and starting with beginner run groups, all you need is an oil cooler and some better brake pads, in my opinion
• I will continue to sing the praises of the BRZ. Good ones are out there for under 10k, and I think buying one with a solid ownership history will bring you many more smiles than frowns. Do you know any owners in person?
  • I had the privilege of growing up near Mach V Motorsport and talking through a lot with them. They're great people. If you have questions about the BRZ, I'd shoot them an email and ask. They're super friendly and knowledgeable.
  •  

I will end with this: the unsexy answer is buy a Honda Fit. They're fun, high up your rankings, reliable as anything you could hope to drive, and they haul tires like no one's business.

But the answer I will give and the one I'd listen actually listen to? Find a solid BRZ/FRS. Get a PPI. Make a fun trip out of it. You'll make a great memory and will have a fantastic car in your life. Good luck sir (sorry for the novel, I just had a lot of thoughts).

Evanuel9 said:

In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :

I already have - i emailed bbbbRASS about his e90. If that doesnt go anywhere ill have to reassess. 

That car is pretty nice.  All new suspension (although there is a slight clunk in the front that we need to solve.

Faster than my 3.9v6 swapped rx8.  

Smells faintly of crayons (as all of them do of this generation).

Generally, a reliable car that I borrow often and enjoy greatly!

You shouldn't buy it.  Then I don't get to enjoy it.

Not that the waters aren't muddy enough already, but if you're in between an E90/E92 328i/330i and a 1st gen BRZ, the correct answer is an E82 128i. It's a slightly smaller/lighter, shorter wheelbase version of the E90/92- same powertrain. 
 

With that said, the FiST is a barrel of monkeys fun to drive around, and honestly, so is the Fit. Of everything mentioned in this thread, the Fit will likely be the easiest on your wallet. 

In reply to Evanuel9 :

Get a four seater 350z.  G35 6spd  2 or 4 door. They come in your price range. Big after market support for the platform.