Are there any good white papers out there of flammability of the fluids used in an R134a a/c system? Both the oil and the refrigerant are of interest to me.
Are there any good white papers out there of flammability of the fluids used in an R134a a/c system? Both the oil and the refrigerant are of interest to me.
In reply to pres589:
You should be able to find MSDS sheets on both of those. They will have the flammability rating listed.
Solid, that'll do, thanks!
Curios where this is going?
In reply to NOHOME:
Flammable fluid zonal analysis of an aircraft. Need to see if anything is considered a flammable fluid. Part of engineering and certifying a new aircraft. This system isn't my responsibility per se but I figured the group that is responsible could use the help.
I'll save you some time. Being a service tech and all and being EPA certified. R134a is not flammable. Neither is the ester oil contained within the compressor. It WILL however, when exposed to flame, create a gas that can kill you and eat things like acid. "Hydrochloric acid's a hellofadrug"
When a refrigerant is decomposed or burned, the primary products formed are acids: Hydrochloric acid (HCI), if the refrigerant contains chlorine, and hydrofluoric acid (HF), if it contains fluorine. These products are certainly formed when hydrogen is present, such as from the breakdown of oil, water or if the refrigerant has hydrogen attached (like R-22 or R-134a). If oxygen also is present (from air or water), then it's possible to form carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide and various unsaturated carbonyl compounds -- the most notorious of which is phosgene.
Better to use butane for refrigerant, then you don't have to worry about those nasty acids....
ASHRAE has a lot of info too.
bentwrench wrote: Better to use butane for refrigerant, then you don't have to worry about those nasty acids....
Propane. 
In reply to Trackmouse:
If this thing starts burning, we've got more immediate concerns, and this is beyond the scope of what I'm looking for. Good to know for my personal knowledge, though, and I appreciate the input.
The MSDSs went to "page not found" sadly.
I cannot see how the oil is not flammable when a refrigerant leak will aerosolize it at 30-400psi. Like a dust explosion except oily and not floury 
I can state from experience that a hose blowing apart under pressure will leave the area foggy with oil.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
"Flammable" is a relative word. I can't light motor oil on fire, but it will burn.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
This one was paddled here from the past. I posted those links 6 years ago.
In reply to Toyman! :
Tricky! I saw the date but not the year.
I've read about CO2 being tested as a refrigerant in automotive AC systems, which would be a super-benign chemical as refrigerants go...
In reply to GameboyRMH :
The Germans (mostly Mercedes, I think) spent a bunch of money developing the CO2 system. It required a different compressor technology because of the much higher pressures required. They were very unhappy when 1234-yf as accepted in Europe because it meant that their newly developed CO2 compressor stuff was unlikely to be attractive enough for anyone to ever use.
In reply to Kubotai :
10k PSI by recollection.
VW were labeled environmental terrorists when they showed a video of a 1234yf equipped vehicle burning after an A/C line blew off near a turbo. They were all in on the CO2 (maybe something else?) train and were greatly annoyed at the formal adoption of 1234yf.
Anyway, I figure that is why VW's A/C systems suck. Probably a combination of insufficient time to properly engineer for this refrigerant, and partly malicious compliance (we were told we have to use this. It could be better but they won't let us. Enjoy your swampass when the A/C blows 80F on a 100F day)
You'll need to log in to post.
