If recent college grads were getting jobs (especially decent-paying ones), I'd bet that would boost sales too. That's very much a target demographic with this car.
If recent college grads were getting jobs (especially decent-paying ones), I'd bet that would boost sales too. That's very much a target demographic with this car.
A demographic that doesn't really exist anymore. There are only 3 people my age in my extended family who don't drive old E36 M3boxes: 1 went through medical school and the other 2 had rich parents. My best friend flipped cars to save up but then lost it all on student debt.
My sister actually makes decent pay (better than me, by far) as an interior designer but she's just terrible with money. I think she pisses away a quarter of it on cell phone bills, and she neglects cars to death and then just buys another one, but it has to be a pretty car so they're not cheap.
I can't imagine going back to having a vehicle payment to make. Get a convertible out there a few years old and I may take the plunge, in fact I'd be very interested in that, but no way can I justify a payment on a car and no way will I have that kind of cash laying around.
While it looks great, is probably a lot safer, gets better mileage, lower emissions, better interior quality, etc. I'm still not going to be trading my FD in for one. No sense in spending that much for lower performance.
NOHOME wrote: To be honest, I think that the deographic on this board is wrong for this car. "Grassroots" has certain financial conotations that would preclude most of the posters from buying this car as a new vehicle. Things like depreciation and interest payments. That makes you smart people.
Put me in this camp. If I'm going to spend close to $30k on a car (which I'm not and haven't done in a REALLY long time), I'm going to buy something like a used Porsche 911 or a used BMW M3 or a used (insert something else much cooler and faster). If folks want to buy the car for their own reasons, I'm thrilled for them. I'm happy the car exists too. That said, I haven't posted anything about the toyobaru, whether or not it should be produced, whether or not I would buy one, my opinions on it, etc. Pretty silly to "insult the board" because few have decided to buy one. Times are still pretty hard for lots of people. If they aren't willing to sign up for big car payments, good for them for not doing so, even if they think this is the greatest car ever.
^^ Agreed, if I were going to spend that kind of change on a toy car right now, I'd probably buy the nicest used Z-06 I could on my budget and call it a day.
I am seriously considering....
Pros:
I am currently in the market for a car. I generally keep cars for a LONG time, so new car depreciation doesn't put me off as much as some.
For a new car, it is attractively priced.
Warranty
It is cool, and it would be fun to be the first on the block with one.
Cons:
I can afford it, but I'd have to finance some portion.
I have past experience with first year of manufacture gremlins, glitches and defects.
Mrs. BDT is lobbying hard for a 'practical' choice - meaning 4 doors and possibly even an automatic (I've never owned one). If you've been married for more than 15 minutes, you know that 'if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy'
I already have a F/R manual coupe that I love and won't part with - don't need two!
The last one is probably the deal-breaker but I'm still on the fence.
If my wife would let me, I'd already be in line for one.
She won't let me get rid of the truck (too useful for us), and she won't start driving it so I can get one.
Otherwise I'd likely be buying one.
To those bringing up the "Oh I could buy this for XXXXX" instead. Look pu the maintenance/tires/brakes on that 911/Z06 compared to this.
It's not really a fair comparison between cars with supercar levels of performance to the Toyobaru.
Used cars will always be a better deal than new cars, with the rare exception of phenoms like the Mini Cooper during the first few years (i.e. whenever resale value is so high that there is little to no depreciation). Approaching the question of "Is this car good enough to buy?" from the standpoint of new vs. used is a moot point.
The real question is "Does this car deliver the goods (i.e. what buyers want) at a favorable price point compared to other comparable, new cars?" I think that the answer is "yes" if the buyer wants an affordable track car that they can still drive to work every day, and only needs limited cargo and people carrying ability. If the handling is as good as the mags are describing, I don't know of another new, stock vehicle that can do what this car does for such little money.
z31maniac wrote: If my wife would let me, I'd already be in line for one. She won't let me get rid of the truck (too useful for us), and she won't start driving it so I can get one. Otherwise I'd likely be buying one. To those bringing up the "Oh I could buy this for XXXXX" instead. Look pu the maintenance/tires/brakes on that 911/Z06 compared to this. It's not really a fair comparison between cars with supercar levels of performance to the Toyobaru.
my 911 and 944t both have 16 inch wheels....CHEAP tires! They are both old though...mid 80s, so not a fair comparison.
I don't think that saying we as a forum don't buy new cars is accurate. Since I've need here I've bought four new cars; they just aren't toy/hobby type cars. Minivans, trucks and commuters. My fun cars are cheap because I get bored easily and want to move on to sample something else.
Plenty of these are going to sell, demographics be damned.
1.) I drive 40,000 miles/year for work. It seems dumb to buy a car this expensive(requiring a loan) and not drive it daily, but it's even dumber to rack up the miles.
2.) I've reached a point in my life where I'd rather spend my money on things besides interest and insurance.
3.) Given the cost of DOT autox tires, I'm really not a fan of the camber-curve for McPherson strut cars.
4.) I've never thought it was a good idea to buy the 1st year of a brand new model.
petegossett wrote: 1.) I drive 40,000 miles/year for work. It seems dumb to buy a car this expensive(requiring a loan) and not drive it daily, but it's even dumber to rack up the miles. 2.) I've reached a point in my life where I'd rather spend my money on things besides interest and insurance. 3.) Given the cost of DOT autox tires, I'm really not a fan of the camber-curve for McPherson strut cars. 4.) I've never thought it was a good idea to buy the 1st year of a brand new model.
So, NO then? But if you would never buy a new car because of the mileage you put on one, I don't think this is really directed at you.
Just got back from dealer training on the car at NOLA Motorsports. Definately a fun car, not a ton of power, but a nice, solid, predictable drive. in car from the training with a pro driver https://www.facebook.com/kfitzmaurice#!/photo.php?v=451102938252509&set=vb.167599059936233&type=2&theater
petegossett wrote: 1.) I drive 40,000 miles/year for work. It seems dumb to buy a car this expensive(requiring a loan) and not drive it daily, but it's even dumber to rack up the miles. 2.) I've reached a point in my life where I'd rather spend my money on things besides interest and insurance. 3.) Given the cost of DOT autox tires, I'm really not a fan of the camber-curve for McPherson strut cars. 4.) I've never thought it was a good idea to buy the 1st year of a brand new model.
Item 1) does not make sense...the whole purpose of buying a car that is fun to drive is to have as much fun as possible...no? Cars going in the bin when I am done in 10 years, so who cares how many miles are on it?
Item 2) The car is cheap guys. And the insurance is the same as for the Protege, so set that one aside and be glad it does NOT have a bazzilion HP.
Item 3) I think youneed more suspension travel than the FRS has to make for any real camber change! I will be curious to see how the car does wih th cone addicts.
I have to agree with you on the risk of buying first year models. Last time was when I bought the Miata and it had the infamous short-nose crank; I only got 300,000 kilometers out of that car in the 13 years I drove it. Shoulda waited two years.
I like it a lot, I mean a whole lot but I already have four vehicles and just don't need another one, especially a new one that's somewhat limited on space. I already have a Miata and an RX7 for that.
Sometimes I think of buying one. I'd even buy it new just to reward Toyota/Subaru for building the damn thing. But then I remember that I drive an old Honda because it's completely replaceable if it drive it into a concrete wall at a the track. No way am I taking a $25,000 car to Mid-Ohio or Nelson Ledges. And I don't want to be buying insurance for every event.
If I bought one, it'd have to be mostly a DD, but I have too many kids for that.
Sorry Toyobaru.
NOHOME wrote:petegossett wrote: 1.) I drive 40,000 miles/year for work. It seems dumb to buy a car this expensive(requiring a loan) and not drive it daily, but it's even dumber to rack up the miles. 2.) I've reached a point in my life where I'd rather spend my money on things besides interest and insurance. 3.) Given the cost of DOT autox tires, I'm really not a fan of the camber-curve for McPherson strut cars. 4.) I've never thought it was a good idea to buy the 1st year of a brand new model.Item 1) does not make sense...the whole purpose of buying a car that is fun to drive is to have as much fun as possible...no? Cars going in the bin when I am done in 10 years, so who cares how many miles are on it? Item 2) The car is cheap guys. And the insurance is the same as for the Protege, so set that one aside and be glad it does NOT have a bazzilion HP. Item 3) I think youneed more suspension travel than the FRS has to make for any real camber change! I will be curious to see how the car does wih th cone addicts. I have to agree with you on the risk of buying first year models. Last time was when I bought the Miata and it had the infamous short-nose crank; I only got 300,000 kilometers out of that car in the 13 years I drove it. Shoulda waited two years.
I tend to agree with the OP of line #1. Here in Michigan there is nothing fun about driving a brand new car on a bone straight freeway that's busted up, pot holed, running over chunks of concrete, getting cracked windsheilds, sitting still in an endless traffic jam, riding between two gigantic semis and just generally getting the living you know what kicked out of your car every time you drive it. If it was some curvy English lane in the country I agree with you.
Nice video! Clearly the car is let down on the track by its street tires (as you would expect). I'd like to see a magazine (hint hint) do the following head-to-head test with track tires:
-BR-Z / FR-S
-S2000
-Mazdaspeed Miata
-Boxster
Just to give us an idea of how far off (or ahead?) it is of those cars' times.
The FR-S was right on the heels of an S2k on the Nurburgring, not on the stock tires but I don't know what model.
Winston wrote: Nice video! Clearly the car is let down on the track by its street tires (as you would expect). I'd like to see a magazine (hint hint) do the following head-to-head test with track tires: -BR-Z / FR-S -S2000 -Mazdaspeed Miata -Boxster Just to give us an idea of how far off (or ahead?) it is of those cars' times.
I think an RX-8 would be more comparable than the Boxster or s2000.
scardeal wrote: I think an RX-8 would be more comparable than the Boxster or s2000.
Yeah, that's a good idea. We had better give the BRZ/FR-S at least one car that it can beat 
I won't, but I won't mind driving or riding in it from time to time 
Winston wrote:scardeal wrote: I think an RX-8 would be more comparable than the Boxster or s2000.Yeah, that's a good idea. We had better give the BRZ/FR-S at least one car that it can beat
The specs are very close. Check this out:
RX-8 - small backseat, good handling, ~2900-3000 lbs, 230HP, n/a, 225mm width tires, torsen-type LSD
BRZ/FRS - miniature backseat, good handling, ~2700 lbs, 200HP, n/a, 215mm width tires, torsen-type LSD
I've been lamenting for years that nobody builds a car like this anymore, but by the time someone finally did, I sort of decided to stop buying new cars. I love the security of a warranty and that new car smell, but I also enjoy letting someone else take the depreciation hit for me. In theory, I'd love to stumble upon a well cared for, low mileage example with three pedals a few years from now, but that's probably not very likely. Plus, it's kind of hard to predict what kind of car I'll be in the mood for in three years.
I don't care what cars look like anymore. My last new car was a WRX and I lived with that for seven years.
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