I recently installed a set of 15x8 +35 wheels and 205/50 tires (RE-71RS) on my DC2 Integra GS-R. The car is running OEM Type R Springs and Koni shocks, so slightly lower (15mm) than a stock GS-R. I'm prepping the car to run SCCA TT S6, which means I'm not allowed to roll fenders and I'm very limited in what spring rates I can run (essentially they have to be sold at Tire Rack). I also can't run any camber arms. So, higher spring rates and more negative camber are not options.
While commuting, the car is seemingly fine. Under heavy load, specifically hard cornering, or while at speed over large bumps in the road (off-camber?) there is a slight rub on the right side rear of the car. I can't really feel the effect, but I can hear a high pitched squeak, which is consistent with the tire rubbing against the OEM rubber fender liner/strip. There appears to be a light rub mark on a small portion of the OEM ruber liner/strip.
I'm not done prepping the car and I'm still allowed to pickup an aftermarket sway bar(s). My OEM GS-R rear sway bar is 14mm (OEM front is 24mm). I'm allowed to run either an OEM Type R rear sway bar (22mm), or a Progress rear sway bar, which is coincidentally also 22mm and comes with a subframe brace (to avoid tear-out).
With a very slight rub on one side of the rear fender, would going from my OEM 14mm sway bar to a 22mm sway bar reduce body roll enough to avoid rubbing?
Thoughts? Experiences?
Thank you!
Sway bars have much less effect on maximum body roll than springs so you shouldn't get your hopes up, especially if only changing one. Is there any space to be gained by getting the fender liner out of the way, by removing/trimming/reshaping it?
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Rather than putting a bandaid on the problem I would find a solution to fix it properly
Said solution could be different wheels or possibly raising the car.
How bad is the rub? How much clearance do you need?
Once you figure out how much clearance you need then cone up with a solution.
I once had this issue with my Datsun (even with fender rolling) my solution was chasing the wheels and tires. I actually went to a shorter (smaller diameter) tire. This lowered the car as well as the gearing. Note mine is a track only car.
If the sway bar helps lap times & fixes the problem then I'd go with that. I suspect it won't as you will still have the bump travel issue.
As long as the wheel is free to move through the same arc, it will rub. Raising the car won't solve it, but it might decrease the frequency. Thicker sway bars will do the same. Same with higher spring rates.
The only way to stop it is to move the wheel and tire out of that position or to move the thing it's hitting. A small spacer under the bumpstop, for example, will limit the bump travel and prevent the contact. Going to a higher offset wheel will probably also solve the problem but you'll have to make sure you have room on the inside. If it's this minor, a different brand of tire might even work.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Thank you for the feedback, sir!
I might try adding a spacer under the bump stop. Would a simple metal washer work?
You're correct, a higher offset wheel wouldn't work as I'm only a few mm away from the rear trailing arm. I would have to go to a thinner wheel (likely a 7.5").
I'm running RE-71RS tires. Unfortunately they're one of the thinner 205/50-15 tires on the market, so a different tire wouldn't help.
I'm not sure how much clearance I need. I would guess just a few mm. Any ideas on how to test clearance?
I might try removing the rubber liners just to see if that gives me the clearance I need.
Thank you all for the feedback!
I would just roll the fenders.
In reply to Racebrick :
Says in the first post that is verboten by ze rules.
In reply to roninsoldier83 :
Best way to test is to pull your spring in that corner, disconnect the sway bar and put a jack under the trailing arm - or the wheel, but it's easier to tell you're getting interference if you can rotate the wheel. That'll let you examine clearance and see just what you need to do. It looks hilarious as a bonus.
A simple metal washer will work for a bumpstop spacer, but you can also get plastic ones like these. It sounds like you don't need much.
Does it say anything about custom offset wheels? If so, I'd have a hard time not looking closely at your current wheels and seeing if taking just .5-1.5 mm off the hub face to move the wheels *slightly* inboard wouldn't in fact be feasible and in fact be the best solution... once you cycle the suspension multiple times looking for any and all possible points of interference, both inboard and outboard, obviously. Just where my heads at... I wouldn't drop a wheel size. I'd figure out a way to make that setup work.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Keith, as always, you are a wealth of information, sir!
I think I'll order some of those spacers, remove the spring/sway bar and see how many I need to stack in there to get it to stop rubbing.
Thank you again for taking the time to explain things to a simpleton like me; I appreciate it!
I had a rubbing on one side only on my E55 AMG when it was slammed all the way down on wide wheels. Looked at it a bit and the rear subrame was never installed dead nuts centered on the car, only rubbed on the passenger side by just a hair. Drivers side was fine. I loosened the bolts holding the rear subrame and shifted it a bit with a prybar and ran the bolts back down. Problem solved. Worth looking into if it only rubs on one side.
In reply to 93gsxturbo :
There went the 4 wheel alignment......
bentwrench said:
In reply to 93gsxturbo :
There went the 4 wheel alignment......
It was a banger anyway - Every Eurocharged bit in the catalog, Fabberge catless dual 3" exhaust, longtubes, split cooling, pullied, etc etc. Slammed down on 20x12s with stretched out 285s. Alignment was the least of my worries. Still ran 11s spinning to half track on garbage Falkens.
Shimming the bumpstop to limit travel can stop the rub, but its also reducing useable suspension travel - travel that you clearly use (as evidenced by the rub).
Question: Your first post seems to indicate that the rub is on the fender liner, but later says fender. If its the liner, can you just let it rub? That might be the best option from a performance standpoint. It will self-clearance.
Agreed, limiting suspension travel is not the first thing to do. But if you can't move the wheel and you're not allowed to roll the fenders and you don't want to go with a smaller tire...the list of options are getting short. The current travel is travel that can't really be used as it will cut the tire if it's on the metal. If it's the liner, well, that's what Ronin was going to check.
Keith Tanner said:
If it's the liner, well, that's what Ronin was going to check.
Roger, I missed that part. Agreed, if the rub is on the metal, its not useable travel (at least not sustainable). Hopefully its just the liners.
When I say "liner", it's actually just a strip of rubber that attaches to the inner lip of the fender. It's not bolted down to anything and can be removed in about ~3 seconds and reinstalled in the same amount of time. It's more like weather stripping that folds around the metal lip of the fender. Probably one of the benefits of the design is that it dulls the sharp edge of the fender, with your tire coming into contact with rubber vs a sharp metal lip. It's only a couple of mm thick an just attaches as though you were sliding a piece of weather stripping onto the edge of anything sharp.
roninsoldier83 said:
I recently installed a set of 15x8 +35 wheels and 205/50 tires (RE-71RS) on my DC2 Integra GS-R. The car is running OEM Type R Springs and Koni shocks, so slightly lower (15mm) than a stock GS-R. I'm prepping the car to run SCCA TT S6, which means I'm not allowed to roll fenders and I'm very limited in what spring rates I can run (essentially they have to be sold at Tire Rack). I also can't run any camber arms. So, higher spring rates and more negative camber are not options.
While commuting, the car is seemingly fine. Under heavy load, specifically hard cornering, or while at speed over large bumps in the road (off-camber?) there is a slight rub on the right side rear of the car. I can't really feel the effect, but I can hear a high pitched squeak, which is consistent with the tire rubbing against the OEM rubber fender liner/strip. There appears to be a light rub mark on a small portion of the OEM ruber liner/strip.
I'm not done prepping the car and I'm still allowed to pickup an aftermarket sway bar(s). My OEM GS-R rear sway bar is 14mm (OEM front is 24mm). I'm allowed to run either an OEM Type R rear sway bar (22mm), or a Progress rear sway bar, which is coincidentally also 22mm and comes with a subframe brace (to avoid tear-out).
With a very slight rub on one side of the rear fender, would going from my OEM 14mm sway bar to a 22mm sway bar reduce body roll enough to avoid rubbing?
Thoughts? Experiences?
Thank you!
You can't roll the fenders....but can you cut the fender lips back instead?
If the tire is harder than the thing being rubbed it sounds like this problem will solve itself. Is there any visible damage to the tires?
In reply to ProDarwin :
For reference, this is what I'm referring to when I say "liner":
It attaches to the fender lip like this:
In reply to JG Pasterjak :
I don't think there's any damage to the tires. There was a faint line on the right rear tire; I'm not sure if it was something that would cause a failure if repeated or not. I suppose I could just run it like that for a while and see if the problem solves itself or if the tire actually gets damaged as a result.
Are you allowed to run staggered tires? I've read of some fwd racers using narrower tires on the rear to facilitate rotation. Not sure if that would work on that platform but thought I'd mention it
aw614
Reader
11/7/22 3:22 p.m.
Oh that fender liner piece...do you have to keep that in for legality reasons?
People always told me to remove that piece since water apparently collects there and starts rust. I removed it and yeah years later... I chipped some paint off from the RT660s on my 15x8s lol.
In reply to amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) :
Yes, I'm allowed to run staggered tires. Although in this situation, I'm running what I thought would be "thinner" tires (205/50 all around). I avoided running 225's (the class limit) in hopes of avoiding this. I know for a fact that 205/50's don't rub on a more narrow wheel (I have a set pinched on my OEM 15x6" wheels). If nothing else works, I could always buy a set of 7.5" rear wheels (currently running 15x8's) and run a staggered wheel setup that would likely solve the issue.
In reply to aw614 :
I don't think there's anything against removing the fender liner (although if it's not mentioned that generally means you can't) and I doubt anyone would care. I think this is my 3rd double wishbone FWD Honda (I've also owned 2 S2000's, that coincidentally also have DWB's) and I would agree- that lower rear quarter panel area where the liner is absolutely where the rust starts on all of them. Probably not a bad idea to remove them.
