WTF is Ford smoking?

Javelin wrote:

Knurled wrote: Picture it: America, 1989. "Why should I pay $12,000 for some piddly 110hp Miata (whatever that made-up word is supposed to mean) when I could get a Mustang LX with a V8 and 5-speed? The Mustang has twice the power, more rubber on the road, and bigger brakes!"

Aaaaannd what's each of them worth today?

The Mustang is worth more, because 3000lb of scrap is more valuable than 2200lb of scrap.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to irish44j: ST isn't a rally car, and isn't marketed as such. So not head to head WRX and whatever the Ralliart is.

Neither is the WRX, really. When they changed bodystyle to the one without rear struts, they stopped their stage rally push. The cars are more in the refined/mainstream vein now. That's about the same time that they stopped sponsoring stage rally in the US, too, because of image/marketing reasons.

Oddly enough, the ST was designed/tuned by the same arm of Ford that did the RS cars.

SlickDizzy wrote: Picture it: America, 1989. "Why should I pay $12,000 for some piddly 110hp Miata (whatever that made-up word is supposed to mean) when I could get a Mustang LX with a V8 and 5-speed? The Mustang has twice the power, more rubber on the road, and bigger brakes!"

Gas wasn't $4 a gallon back then. I'd have bought the Mustang though. value now for a clean example of either is probably fairly close. Mustang a bit more if a notchback.

I think a lot of car buyers though are finance buyers. As car guys it's easy for us to crunch the numbers and say.. but at $28K loaded I'd look at the base model XXX.

I'd say in the real sales world, the base price on an ST (around $25K?) is a great deal. That gets people in the door. The upsell on the options is always just $XX dollars more per month. Adding a couple option packages may creep the total price up high, but the payment is what cars get sold on any more (I'm not saying this is right... just my observation). Ford is smart to do this. They make more money selling well equipped cars, then just flat pedalling more cheap base models. They don't need to sell in huge #'s to make the same profit.

I'd also say comparisons need to stay apples to apples. Anyone who opts for nav and leather and heated seats and everything else, is going to do the same thing on whatever other car they're looking at.

A loaded autobahn edition GTI is something like $30K also. Any car fully loaded is likely almost $10K higher than it's equivalent base model.

I think the ST looks like a great package, and not a bad value relative to the competition, even optioned with Recaros. Add in 30+ mpg highway and hatchback utility and it's full of win. I could care less about Nav.

That said, I'm not in the market for one, so take that for what you will. (I drive a paid for 13 year old VW diesel hatchback)

People keep complaining about the look of the seats. You don't have to get the two tone orange seats in the car.

Power isn't everything. BAck in 08 I cross shopped my C30 with the MS3. Yes the numbers all showed the MS3 was the better car. One drive shows that 99% of the time the C30 is the far better car to drive daily. If it were a 3rd/4th track car, the MS3 won hands down, but real world I went for the C30. HAving driven a friends new Focus ST if I were making the decision today, the ST beats the MS3 hands down.

The $14k crate engine is the 3.5L Ecoboost V6. The EcoBoost in the Focus ST is a 2.0L 4 banger with a hairdryer on it. I am still holding out hope they pull their heads outta their asses and make an AWD version...

93EXCivic wrote:

Javelin wrote:

Knurled wrote:

SlickDizzy wrote: Much like the FRS/BRZ, if you haven't driven one, you're missing about 90% of the point.

Picture it: America, 1989. "Why should I pay $12,000 for some piddly 110hp Miata (whatever that made-up word is supposed to mean) when I could get a Mustang LX with a V8 and 5-speed? The Mustang has twice the power, more rubber on the road, and bigger brakes!"

Aaaaannd what's each of them worth today?

About $1000.

You guys saying a clean unmolested fox body LX 5.0 is only worth 1k or scrap value are delusional.....I mean lets be realistic here.

The base model ST has normal focus seats The second package has the recaros cloth/leather for the 28k but you can get them all black vs the yellow or blue inserts The third package adds nav, hids, and full leather recaros

Knurled wrote: Maz-da-speed-2. Make it happen, guys.

With the 2's lackluster sales, I gave up on those dreams a few months ago. At least the Fiesta ST has a real chance of getting here.

I saw a Focus ST at Shelby America when I was there this past week for SEMA. They told me I didn't see anything and ignore the little orange car sitting in the shop. So, of course, I tell you guys...

SlickDizzy wrote:

Knurled wrote: Maz-da-speed-2. Make it happen, guys.

With the 2's lackluster sales, I gave up on those dreams a few months ago. At least the Fiesta ST has a real chance of getting here.

If they DO bring the Fiesta ST here, I will seriously consider buying one new.

We've seen the mules testing the Fiesta ST here before

I know, and I saw one they had on display at the DC Auto Show in January. Although the windows were tinted so dark you couldn't see inside, the car itself looked great. I like the Focus a lot, and my wife has one (not the ST), but I would rather drive something smaller on a day to day basis.

It is one of those "unofficially official" sort of deals, it seems - gov't filings indicate that they are indeed planning to "bring it."

http://blog.caranddriver.com/2014-ford-fiesta-sts-arrival-confirmed-in-govt-docs%E2%80%94possibly-only-160-hp/

I've driven the ST, GTi, and a 2013 WRX. I was anything but impressed with the WRX. Too much hype for that car. The GTi is nice but lends itself to one wheel peels and I just don't like the way it handles. Out of all three of them I'd go for the ST.

Cotton wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

Javelin wrote:

Knurled wrote:

SlickDizzy wrote: Much like the FRS/BRZ, if you haven't driven one, you're missing about 90% of the point.

Picture it: America, 1989. "Why should I pay $12,000 for some piddly 110hp Miata (whatever that made-up word is supposed to mean) when I could get a Mustang LX with a V8 and 5-speed? The Mustang has twice the power, more rubber on the road, and bigger brakes!"

Aaaaannd what's each of them worth today?

About $1000.

You guys saying a clean unmolested fox body LX 5.0 is only worth 1k or scrap value are delusional.....I mean lets be realistic here.

Well a beat up one of each seem to go for $1000.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: People keep complaining about the look of the seats. You don't have to get the two tone orange seats in the car.

What is wrong with orange seats?

To me nothing, I'd get them, but I was just pointing out you have choices.

Cotton wrote: You guys saying a clean unmolested fox body LX 5.0 is only worth 1k or scrap value are delusional.....I mean lets be realistic here.

I am being realistic... the words "clean", "unmolested", and "LX 5.0" don't belong in the same sentence.

I am in the market for one and I was very disappointed with the price, if it still managed 40 mpg highway or had AWD it would be worth it, but not for a FWD hatch that only get 23/32. It is way outperformed by the WRX.

Joshua wrote: It is way outperformed by the WRX.

...but it's faster than the WRX around a track? People's definition of "performance" is really odd these days.

Knurled wrote:

Cotton wrote: You guys saying a clean unmolested fox body LX 5.0 is only worth 1k or scrap value are delusional.....I mean lets be realistic here.

I am being realistic... the words "clean", "unmolested", and "LX 5.0" don't belong in the same sentence.

Challenge accepted

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-FORD-MUSTANG-LX-5-0-5-SPEED-MANUAL-1-OWNER-GARAGE-KEPT-BLACK-CONVERTIBLE-/190750899018?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2c69a3bb4a

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-89-BLACK-MUSTANG-LX-CONVERTIBLE-CONV-TRIPLE-BLACK-CUSTOM-PONY-WHEELS-/290807171003?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item43b57547bb

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-Ford-Mustang-LX-Hatchback-2-Door-5-0L-/110971825559?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item19d66fad97

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1993-Ford-Mustang-LX-Hatchback-2-Door-5-0L-/181014464887?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2a254d8977

Has anybody punished the pseudo-LSD in the Focus ST to see if it can handle prolonged abuse?

Call me old fashioned, but I'd rather have a mechanical differential in there.

In reply to Brett_Murphy:

The focus boards would probably be the first place you'll hear of a failure(if there is one)

I was looking at the Focus ST, but am curious to see what Mazda does with the next generation (2014-2015?) Mazda3 and hopefully a new Mazdaspeed3. My 2007 Mazda3 has been excellent and never really cared for the 2010+ styling.