ZOMG what car ver. sport/lux

I've made a couple of these before and they always spur up some good conversation...

Requirements: Fun to drive, manual or automated manual trans, back seat able to accommodate the occasional child seat or child, under $20k, I'm gonna put a LOT of miles on it.

Difficulty: No silver cars (lol good luck) and must have black leather.

I've never paid another person to work on my vehicles aside from stuff I don't have the tools to do like tires and alignments. I will do all the work on whatever I buy myself and have a background in german cars. Maintenance cost isn't really a factor here but huge $$ common failure parts should be mentioned.

The contenders:

E46 M3 coupe.
These are starting to drop into the teens around here. The SMG trans may be a ticking time bomb but doesn't scare me. Expensive oil changes. I hear stories of trim failures and various BMWish problems ie. door actuators, suspension bushings, and stupid electrical stuff. Should be a hoot to drive everyday.

E46 330i ZHP: Harder to find than the M3 for about the same money. I still like them.

E39 M5: These are in the teens as well now. Supposedly super maintenance intensive but I don't really see why they should be. Aside from the regular BMW stuff they should be super solid cars. May even be able to steal one with the ZOMG$$ secondary air system failure which doesn't actually effect anything. How can you go wrong with a 400hp V8?

E39 540i Sport Six Speed: Like the M5 but down about 100hp and ten grand. Aside from buy-in I don't see how one of these would be any cheaper to own than the M.

Acura TL Six Speed: Not as nice as the bimmers and front wheel drive, but much newer with fewer miles for the same money. Much less likely to have been enthusiast owned and maintained though. Still a sharp looking car and may be slightly less of a pain than the germans.

Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG Yeah, it's an auto but a damn good one and I'll make an exception here. I don't really know anything about these. Relatively stealthy looks and clean lines. Without the badging you'd be hard pressed to tell it's fast.

Pontiac GTO: Aside from looking like a cavaliers butch older brother these a pretty neat cars. Should be the most reliable as well. Also the best highway mileage of the bunch.

Mazdaspeed 6: Cheapest of the group, only one with all wheel drive. I hear bad stories about turbo seals and motor mount failures.

Any other suggestions?

Audi S4? The 2.7TT version?

The S4s are really cheap. Cheap enough that I think people may be just trying to dump them on someone else. I've heard lots of scary things about them.

GTO, hands down. The interior is the nicest GM interior ever sold in the states and black leather is standard (though I like the optional and rare red or blue seats in certain colors). 400HP / 400TQ dead stock and 28MPG highway, what's not to love? Fast in an autocross too, I co-drove ThunderCougarFalconGoat's stock one yesterday (since I broke my 7) and was solidly placed, especially for being on BFG KDW's!!!

http://www.oregonpca.org/events/autocross/ax-results/2009-ax1/ax1-final-raw-time-results/

Did I mention it goes 13.0@108 in the 1/4? They look really nice with some aftermarket wheels and the optional SAP grills. Also my fat butt is 5'10" and 230Lbs and I fit in the back seat behind a 6'3" friend with no problems.

Take a look at Volvo S40 turbos, too.

Lexus IS 300, I love mine.

Ups: Fun to drive, wishbones, Lexus quiet and smooth, good stereo, Toyota reliability, 5-speed with Torsen limited-slip available, less common than 3 Series.

Downs: 20-25mpg most of the time, hard to find in interesting colors, wagon wasn't available in 5-speed.

skruffy wrote: The S4s are really cheap. Cheap enough that I think people may be just trying to dump them on someone else. I've heard lots of scary things about them.

The turbos fail at high miles, but i would just personally see that as an excuse to upgrade.

Look at it this way, he could get one, and then pay someone to fix it to where it's perfect, and still be less in the hole than his budget by a wide margin.

That motor is ungodly, the interior is amazing (imo) and the wrapper ain't too bad, either.

skruffy wrote: Mazdaspeed 6: Cheapest of the group, only one with all wheel drive. I hear bad stories about turbo seals and motor mount failures.

I'd say you've been reading on the fan boi boards a bit much.

Keep in mind..on the i-net problems are talked about much more than they actually happen. Why post if your car is doing fine?

The guys I've heard of losing motor mounts are drag racing quite a bit. Not suprisingly they are also the guys who are blowing turbo seals. I'm sure their cars are 100% stock. That manual boost controller they have for sale in the "Used" section was never installed. HONEST!

My Mazdaspeed 3 is a great runner. You can get one of those in the price range you're looking for. They won't have the interior poshness of any BMW however.

P71 wrote: GTO, hands down.

+1 What he said.

On the 5 series BMW, the M5 had a lot of special parts specific to it that cost a bunch to replace. The "regular" 5 series has much more common parts and most of the parts that fail or need regular replacement are quite cheap and easy to DIY.

Of all on your list, the 540i6 would be my choice. Basically a smaller version of my car (I just need to save up for the 6 speed swap).

I dunno, this is like four times as much money as I spend on my "nice" cars.

What about the G35 in the coupe or sedan flavor?

G_Stock wrote:

P71 wrote: GTO, hands down.

+1 What he said.

+2 What he and he said..

Raze wrote:

G_Stock wrote:

P71 wrote: GTO, hands down.

+1 What he said.

+2 What he and he said..

+3, except for the part about best GM interior. It's ok, but not great, especially in the dash. The G8 has a much better feel, IMHO.

As a mazdaspeed6 owner I would tell you not to worry too much about the turboseals. there seemed to be an early batch that had issues its not as common as some of the other issues that can crop up.

I suspect that the guys who are having motor mount failures are being stupid (ie. launching the car with a clutch drop).

That being said, the motor mounts are soft, and may contribute to the one problem I have experenced which is a failed rear differential mount.

I have broken the rear diff mount twice. I do autoX the car frequently so I am pretty hard on the car(though I don't drag race and or launch it and my motor is stock). I have upgraded the rear diff mount and havent had any issues since then.

I do love the car, and in an autoX I don't seem to have mutch trouble with the my buddies GTO that occationally shows up (Since I have one point of refernce that may have more to do with the drivers ). His GTO did impress me though, its a nice car too. buy them both???

Tom Heath wrote: +3, except for the part about best GM interior. It's ok, but not great, especially in the dash. The G8 has a much better feel, IMHO.

That scares me... I was all about the G8 until I sat in one, and it was the interior that made me no longer lust after that car. It felt about on par with my '88 Cavalier.

Of course, this comes from the guy who HATES the interior on the Mazda3, so take that as you will.

Regarding the OP, I'd take the Goat, too. It may lack the euro appeal of [almost] everything else you've listed, but it will easily be the cheapest to find parts for, especially 5 or 10 years down the road.

A CHALLENGER APPEARS!

And berkeley the black leather, you want it's "signature" interior:

Let's also not forget about the Legacy GT.

Owning a Legacy GT, I would going to suggest that as well.

G35 would be on my list too.

Love that interior on the S60R. Actually, it's the same Sovereign Hide leather interior in the '07 XC90 I just picked up for the Wife ($2800 option when new!).

As much as I love my BMW and am a serious BMW fanboi for your specific needs I'd seriously consider the GTO - the price/performance/value equation is very hard to beat. Just be sure to budget for frequent rear tire replacements :)

If you want to go BMW, then it depends on your priorities sporty vs. luxury. The E46 3 is a pretty small car. My kids were hard to fit in their boosters (not full car seats) in the back of my 328i. It was very sporty though. I'm not sure I'd call it "luxury" but rather "premium". The 540i is more luxury than the 330 or the M3, yet retains a strongly sporty nature.

How about a CTS-V? I don't know what pricing is these days but I suspect first generation cars are in your neighborhood.

Another vote for CTS-V. Not so different from the GTO powertrain, much more accomodating back seat, not nearly as economy-car looking exterior. A worthy competitor to your European suggestions in many regards, pretty simple to work on, cheap parts, and great value in the used market right now.

Bryce

Tom, Really? Maybe it's because my cars are a 26 year old Mazda and a cop car, but I though the GTO's dash was quite pleasing. The color-matched gauges and stitching are pimp and the suede lowers are so nice. The only things I don't like are the lack of an oil pressure gauge and the black plastic piece at the very middle of the dash, both of which are remedied with the same aftermarket part (binnacle gauge pod with factory Holden gauges).

I like the G8 interior, but I honestly think the GTO version is nicer. Higher quality plastic (especially the air vents and parking brake) and a more ergonomic layout.

I will agree with Bryce though, the CTS-V is just a stellar car and with 4-doors is more practical as well.

I think that volvo is sweet, though I still have a soft spot in my heart for the 850 T5R wagons of yore, I loved those wheels and that boxy shape...ahhhh I need help...

No really, I thought the GTO interior was terrible. Not that the G8 was great, just better IMHO.

I would also endorse the CTS-V or Legacy GT.

The CTS V is certainly intriguing. I'll have to find one for a test drive and see if they live up to the hype.

I love the IS-300. Good pick Scott.

Of your bunch, however, I'd have to jump on the M5. There is a blue one just like that that lives on my block and I just stare at it every time I walk by it. There was a black one at Summit Point Main last fall with an after-market exhaust and that berkeleyer screamed! It's funny because it wasn't as much of a BMW sound as it was an American, ground-pounding, Hell-spawned NASCAR motor sound. And it was FAST!