250cc bikes OK for a 15 year old? Which bike?

My son turns fifteen this year. In Texas, he's allowed to have a motorcycle license at that age as long as he wears a helmet and the bike is under 250cc. He wouldn't think twice about the helmet because he's use to wearing one at the kart track and is huge on safety, anyway. We've talked about it and he said he'd also want gloves and a jacket at least.

Would you get one for your kid? Why or why not? This would be for back and forth to school and to a job, mainly. No freeway travel nor "dangerous" roads. He stated last night one road he'd avoid at all cost because "People drive like berkelying idiots on that road."

Second question is, what bike? I know almost zilch about motorcycles. Searching CL, I can specifically type in 250 or 250cc, but something tells me there's still a bunch I'm missing. He's said that he does NOT want a moped, but we'll see. So far, I've found Ninja 250's, Honda Rebel 250's and a couple of Korean brands (Dong Fang?). I know there were lots of classic bikes in the 250 range, but have no idea what to look for. Of course, he leans more towards the Ninja, but he likes classic cars and some of the classic bikes he's seen. He's already said that if we got a Ninja, he'd want to convert it to a cafe' racer style.

Oh, and he would absolutely take a motorcycle course. I don't ride, so I don't have the experience to teach him and I'm 99% sure it'll be required by the state, anyway.

Learn me!

-Rob

What about a dual sport with Street tires?

Light weight, no fairings to worry about, and not likely to attract the wrong kind of attention.

Let me start off with the disclaimer that I don't know your son, and hopefully you do. Some people couldn't be trusted with a 50cc pitbike, some could start on a turbo literbike and be fine.

Here are the 3 typical things you're going to find when you search "250":

Ninja 250s- Barring 2 strokes and street converted MX bikes, these are going to be the fastest things you find in that displacement. They also typically have the best brakes and suspension, are super reliable, and don't depreciate much unless you absolutely destroy them.

Rebel/Nighthawk/Virago/other standard and cruiser 250s- These are typically air cooled, slow, "traditional" looking motorcycles with lousy brakes and suspension. They're very much designed to be stepping stones for people starting out, but they're basically recycled '70s tech.

Dual sports- If they started out street legal and the name doesn't begin with "WR" these will probably be air cooled, but still a decent amount quicker than the standard/cruiser type options thanks to light weight. They typically have lousy brakes and terrible lights, but are ultra reliable, simple, and will let him have some fun off road. They're also typically too slow for highways, which may be a good thing- this is the option I'd go with, my first bike was a dual sport and when I got the itch to do something dumb, I could do it on dirt where there were no cars.
*Dual sport disclaimer- there will be "converted" dual sports made street legal with a lighting kit or other parts. They're faster and lighter than the factory dual sports, but not a great idea due to maintenance intervals, etc.

On the Korean/Chinese bikes: The only ones I might trust are Hyosungs, and even then I'd rather have something from Japan. I'd avoid Dong Fang/Lifan/etc.

My first street bike was a ninja 600RR, but I was 20+ at that point, and married. It was fun, I didnt do anything stupid (other than sell it!!). If hes truly a responsible kid I dont see an issue wiht a 250, Id love my 250cc dirt bike to be street legal, its got a ton of power, and is really light and easy to maneuver. I think 250lbs vs 600 is a big difference for a 15 year old too.

IMO id look for a dual sport to start off wiht.

What's your budget like? This bike looks really clean and is (I think) somewhat local to you: XT225

Light, small, efficient, and reliable!

On the café racer thing, I would discourage it, at least at first- somebody who hasn't ridden much isn't going to know what type of ergonomics they like, and it's very possible to royally berkeley up the way the bike rides by messing with low bars, rearsets, etc. Maybe get a commuter and buy a café project later.

I vote dual sport as well, no worries when he drops it - and he will, even if just at a light or in the garage. I'd really like a Honda CRF250L, but they're still pretty new and expensive. As long as whatever you buy is well taken care of, most dual sports seem pretty durable.

On the scooter subject - I got my motorcycle permit in high school and my dad had a Zumba for me to start learning with. I hated it - zero power, no shifting which wasn't fun, and the whole sitting on a seat thing kinda messed with me. Fast forward til I got a real job, and I decided to get a motorcycle again. I ended up with a Suzuki DR650, and love it - way more confidence-inspiring to drive.

Ninja 250 or 300 / CBR250 or Honda Grom

Buy used. Make him ride it for a 6 months or a year without making any modifications. If he doesn’t beat the crap out of it, he can probably sell it for real close to what he bought it for. After the set time, if he likes it he can start to modify it. If he likes riding and has been responsible, then sell it for a bigger bike.

How tall is he, how much does he weigh? Find one that fits his inseam and he can pick up from laying down after he drops it.

07+ Ninja 250, they're quick enough to actually not be dangerous on public roads, and they're dead nuts reliable. They can exceed 100mph, but not by much, and it takes awhile to get there.

Mandatory minimum will be a one piece full face SNELL approved helmet(screw anything less), armored gloves, armored riding jacket, pants always, and well made shoes/boots.

I can speak from experience that those will save your ass in low speed accidents.

Best advice as far as the rider is the same I got, tell him to bend over, pull his head from his own arse before even starting the bike, then do it again before even riding it.

Well, he's never ridden a motorcycle, so I'm worried about that part in general. However, when it comes to driving, he already seems pretty responsible. Racing karts for all of the years he has taught him that 99% of the people on the road have no idea what they're doing and he has to be hyper aware. He hates being the the car when his friends are driving with mom/dad (15 year old learners permit) because of how badly they drive and don't pay attention. I think he'll be fine and it will help to teach him to be more aware since he'll be invisible.

Hadn't thought about a dual sport because they always seemed like a half solution to two types of riding. Not really an off-road bike and not really a street bike, so it does neither very well. Just my uninformed opinion. But, the light weight and easy to maneuver are pluses.

With any 250, size seemed like an issue. Right now, he's about 5'8" and maybe 125 soaking wet. He'll always be skinny for karting, but I'm worried about his height. I'm only 5'10", but his uncles are 6'3" and 6'4". If he has a growth spurt, I'm assuming he'll be too cramped.

I thought more of a cruiser (ala' Rebel) than sport bike because it seemed like it would be easier for him to learn and drive. However, hearing that a sport bike will handle better with better brakes and he's accustom to the instant response of a kart, I'm starting to lean towards the sport bike. Wonder how big the insurance hit would be......

Budget is small. We have some time, so I haven't really started saving up yet. Good to know most 250's keep their value. We've seen Ninja's anywhere from $300 to around $2200.

I'd like to stay $1500 or less. And I kinda like the idea of one he needs to work on to improve his wrenching skills.

-Rob

I wouldn't put my 15 year old on a road bike. I would have ulcers.

"Hadn't thought about a dual sport because they always seemed like a half solution to two types of riding. Not really an off-road bike and not really a street bike, so it does neither very well. Just my uninformed opinion. But, the light weight and easy to maneuver are pluses."

Think Jeep Wrangler. Fun and competent on and off road, doesn't suck at either. Plus a scratch on a jeep or dualsport isn't the same as a scratch on a Miata or sportbike. It is expected. But I had a street legal XR250 at the same time I had a liter sportbike and I did more stupid stuff on the dual sport. Second gear wheelies at 30 mph vs 130 and jumping the stairs at the local bank felt normal.

In reply to rob_lewis:

Yea, definitely a fairing'd 250 ninja. They are really a standard in terms of riding position, but have fairings for less wind.

I wouldn't recommend a single cruiser under 30hp.....that's begging for getting run over trying to accelerate with traffic.

rob_lewis wrote: He's already said that if we got a Ninja, he'd want to convert it to a cafe' racer style.

The Ninja would be a good choice, but it's already a racer style bike so I'm not sure what the conversion would be.

He is in to Karts, is he in to bikes cause its a way to get some freedom before he gets is car licence or because he really wants to ride ?

If the latter, I suggest staying off the street. Get a dirt bike, learn to ride, ride a lot, then the following year learn to road race. The light weight, and now super light weight class are great for learning how cornering speeds make you the fast guy.

I road on the street, but gave it up for the track. I just don't feel safe on the street, even if everyone else was perfect and only I was the one to make a mistake, ouch. No full leathers, hard things to slide into, curbs, cars, poles, trees... Then there is the commuting drone, you get up to speed, get to top gear, hold the throttle in one position, hardly move off the seat, anything else gets you a ticket.

In the last 10 years, I have maybe 100 miles on the street, test drives of others who thought their bike was having an issue, and probably 10000 on the track, that's with a 5 year break for a herniated disk.

For a bike, the 250/300 cc classes are growing fast at Loudon. For the street, if he really wants a commuter, I think the 250/300s are a good starter bike for some one that has never ridden before, you can also look into a used buell blast, not as much HP, but a bit more torque at low rpms, and is more cafe style than the others. Wacking the throttle on any of these is not going to spin up the tire and toss you off.

As for size, he is young, he will be able to fold himself in to a riding position on those for years to come, heck, when I was young, I had a friend that was 6 foot, he went to an event in NY as the pit crew for a couple YSR50 racers, one did not want to ride, so he did, and pulled a 2nd in the final with a get off to boot.

Once he gets the hang of the 250 and wants to go bigger, I suggest a SV650 or the ninja 650 twins. The have as much HP as a 600s from the late 80, early 90s, more than enough for the highway, but enough time between power pulses making any slides controllable if to much throttle is applied. The SVs are pretty much bullet proof with regular oil changes, my SV is a 2000, I have been racing it since 2002, the only things that have let me down was a clutch cable and a spark plug boot.

Steve

I rode a Suzuki TS185 Enduro at that age. Did a sprocket change on it and it would wheelstand in 3 gears, even sitting on the tank leaning way over the handlebars. Top speed was 60mph though which wasn't a big issue what little I drove on the highway, this was early-mid 70's so speed limit was 55. I second the dual-sport. Light, easy to maneuver and versatile. Scooters have come a long way and there are some nice ones in that size range. When he gets older then let him choose to go sportbike or cruiser when upsizing.

Quote"I road on the street, but gave it up for the track. I just don't feel safe on the street, even if everyone else was perfect and only I was the one to make a mistake, ouch. No full leathers, hard things to slide into, curbs, cars, poles, trees... Then there is the commuting drone, you get up to speed, get to top gear, hold the throttle in one position, hardly move off the seat, anything else gets you a ticket."

You can and should wear gear on the street. Also, lots of stuff to hit on the track. I hit a wall at Road Atlanta and my wife hit one at Putnam Park. I love the street, but I don't commute. Still, street riding is better than no riding. Sure, track is fun, but for me, I could never go less than 10 tenths on the track. Even in the dirt, I would push the limit.

I've been riding on the streets since I was only a little older than your son. There is no such thing as a safe street, they are all dangerous. Understand that. Hitting or being hit by anything while on a bike will hurt, usually quite badly.

Helmet, gloves and such are all great at protecting, but the greatest protection is the rider. Gear to protect from impact damage is vastly overrated when it comes to road speeds and cars, and darn miserable to wear. Especially in the summer. Gear to protect from abrasion is more realistic. But, this concept generally devolves to rants from the so-called ATGATT crowd.

Texas in general has a lot of dirt roads. Dedicated street bikes with dedicated street tires don't handle terribly well on dirt roads. The more asphalt only oriented they are, the worse they do on a dirt road. Oh, they can certainly be ridden on them, but not as well as a bike or at least a vaguely dirt oriented tire can. I personally would not recommend eschewing all thoughts of dirt handling. It's not nice to slide wide on a dirt road turn into the front of an oncoming car simply because the bike or tires couldn't handle it. And make no mistake, crotch rockety type tires really don't do well on a generic dirt road, and especially not a sugar sand type road.

Since your budget is small, price is going to mostly dictate what you find. Generic overall conditions observations to the bike by you. Leaks, redneck repairs etc, pass on the bike. Extreme bikes of any ilk likely will create general purpose riding problems. A super screamer rocket isn't easy to ride gently on the street. A tall long suspension dirt bike isn't fun to ride on the street either. The little cruisers tend to be darn uncomfortable after only 20 minutes or so. A generic UJM (universal japanese motorcycle) in this size though tends to do it all reasonably well.

Plus 1 to all foxtrapper said.

As someone that grew up on dirt bikes, and is no stranger to road bikes, I'd be really uncomfortable putting a kid that doesn't already have several years of riding experience out on the road. I don't know what the roads in your area are like, but where I live, I don't even want to ride a street bike. Drivers are definitely worse today than years ago, thanks to many distractions.

All that being said, I'd put him on a 200cc/250cc dual sport instead of small UJM, assuming that he is tall enough to straddle one.

Ninja 250 hands down winner, the Rebel he will get boring in a day if he's used to karts. Do both of your selves a favor and add plastic axle and frame sliders they are cheap and will save the body work and injury too.

Get gloves with plastic knuckles or fake carbon fiber. Textile over pants are a great idea too if you take out the quilted liner there not to hot an give you knee cups and hip padding and when you get to work your clean and don't smell like the hiway as bad.

How about a Suzuki Savage (or whatever they call it these days)? If he/you are OK with cruiser style? They have more torque than a rebel 250, but not in an intimidating way and not enought to really get away from you. VERY low seat and light. My brother had one many years ago and I enjoyed riding it other than the limited cornering clearance (standard cruiser) and somewhat sub-par braking (again standard cruiser). As a side bonus, I seem to remember it getting 60+ mpg.

First, thanks to all for the advice!! I've never been a rider, so it's totally new territory for me. Although a dual sport sounds like a cool idea if he wanted to go offroad, he isn't really into that at all. Probably because he's met so many people who started in dirt bikes and got into karts because it's safer.

Texas law says that under the age of 15, it has to be under 250cc. So, anything bigger isn't an option. He and I both like the Honda Grom, but it's really out of my price range of what I want to spend.

Understand that this is just transportation for him. He'll still get his auto license at 16 and start driving a car. A motorcycle gives him some freedom a year early. Plus, he's planning on working this summer and attending a class or two at the community college. So, him being able to get there on his own would be nice. This is not a chance to him to start racing motorcycles or anything. Even he sees it as transportation, but being 14, he still wants something "cool". I'll put him in a motorcycle training course as soon as I can.

Sounds like a Ninja 250 or CBR 250 (if I can get them cheap enough), is the best option.

-Rob

In reply to rob_lewis:

OK then, here are some good ones:
Naked Ninja
"Teach him to clean a carb" Ninja
Delusions of Speed Ninja
Green Ninja

Man, I forgot how common these are!

This thing is a 250cc rip-off of the SV650, which is the Miata of motorcycles.

Hyosung Comet 250 - $1450

https://houston.craigslist.org/mcy/5392555639.html