We all know this already

Riding motorcycles makes you smarter.

I'm probably in the exrider category right now, hopefully that will change next year.

I'm under the impression that this is similar to bicycling to work every day in the city (navigating traffic, lane splitting, avoiding pedestrians, etc...)

Judging by the majority of the riders around here, I have to strongly disagree. Most of them can't seem to remember to wear a helmet and summer always brings out the wife beaters, shorts and flip flops. At least with no helmet, they won't have to actually feel the road rash.

Most people that die in motorcycle wrecks don't die from head injuries. And I've transferred my share of people that were wearing helmets to the nursing home for life.

Toyman01 wrote: Judging by the majority of the riders around here, I have to strongly disagree. Most of them can't seem to remember to wear a helmet and summer always brings out the wife beaters, shorts and flip flops. At least with no helmet, they won't have to actually feel the road rash.

Yea buddy! When you get run down by the soccer mom in her SUV, those long pants and boots will save your life!

In reply to foxtrapper:

My son has a good friend that commutes on a Ducati. A soccer mom changed lanes into him on the interstate a couple of years ago. He went down at 65mph on concrete. Destroyed the bike and every scrap of gear he was wearing. He walked away with a bruised hip and shoulder. So yes, the correct helmet, jacket, pants and boots will absolutely save your ass. The motorcycle crowd even has a saying about that. All the gear, all the time.

Personally, I wouldn't wear the gear, ever. I hate being hot, I hate helmets. That, and soccer moms, is why I don't own a motorcycle.

I don't buy the reduced stress part. Many times did I come off the bike agitated to no end.

foxtrapper wrote: Yea buddy! When you get run down by the soccer mom in her SUV, those long pants and boots will save your life!

Really?

I don't wear the gear because it will save my life in a bad accident. I wear it because it will save lots of skin in a less serious accident.

And I'm not sure if I'm smarter because I ride, or, if I'm smarter because I ride.

Appleseed wrote: I don't buy the reduced stress part. Many times did I come off the bike agitated to no end.

You must be doing it wrong.

People tend to be a little miffed when someone tries to murder them with 3 tons of SUV.

So yes, the correct helmet, jacket, pants and boots will absolutely save your ass.

No. That gear may save your ass, if you're lucky and crash just right. Big difference between may and will.

ATGATT is a myth. More like SoTGMoTT, Some of The Gear, Most of The Time.
I've yet to see one of those self-proclaimed ATGATT acolytes that I couldn't see missing gear on. And that's without getting into the quality of the gear they are frequently wearing.

As long as I'm being somewhat inflamatory, lets go for the gusto!

A whole lot of ATTATT folk are lousy riders, and count on that gear to keep them alive. They crash regularly and frequently, and because they wear gear think they are great riders. Mention the notion of riding within ones skill level and being responsible will be met with jeers and insults. Just glance at the ADV face plant and perfect line forums to see what I mean.

Crashed in a turn because of some sand on the pavement? You overrode your skills and the road conditions. ATG helped only because you were a lousy rider to begin with. A skilled rider wouldn't have gone down in the first place, gear or no gear. They'd have slowed down for the turn. God help you if you point this out to an ATGATT dingbat rider.

Lets go a little further.

In my opinion, a whole lot of crashing happens in part because of ATGATT. Riders cooking their brains out, proudly overheating and dehydrating themselves. Riders with race helmets with no field of vision. Gear so cumbersome they can't handle the bike well. Headphones so they can't hear anything around them. Boots so thick and stuff they can't shift or hit the brake without moving their whole leg. Gloves so thick and stiff they can't even feel the brake or clutch lever. By no means is all gear this bad, but a whole lot of it is.

So back to the original point, friend of mine went under the wheels of a left turning semi. Her gear didn't do her a bit of good. Nor did it help another acquaintance of mine who went through the windshield and rear window of a pickup that hit him head on. Another friend who had his leg essentially ripped off by the pinch of his handlebars to his tank as he went flying over them wasn't helped by his gear either. Nor was the friend who went into a guard rail and was sliced in half by the metal post holding up the rail. Though I did have a cousin who lived through a race crash and having some people ride over is face and neck. His gear did help him.

Can gear help? Of course. My favorite example was a road race wipeout without any impact. The rider confusedly attempted to get up while still sliding down the track at 100+ as I recall. Not surprisingly, he fell back down. He then lay on his side, sliding along, waiting until he slowed down enough to get up. He then ran over to his bike, restarted it, and continued racing. Leathers can be great, under certain conditions, like sliding along.

But is ATGATT the only way to ride safely? Not at all. At least not in my opinion.

In reply to foxtrapper:

I don't disagree with you at all. Riding gear is kind of like a seat belt. There is no guarantee it will save you. We all hope we will never need it, but when you do, you better have it on.

Your entire post is why I don't ride motorcycles. It's a chance I wasn't willing to take when I was 19 and test rode my first bike, and am even less willing to take at 48. I have 0 faith in my fellow drivers. I've been in two major crashes in the last 30 years. In neither one was I at fault, in neither one was I injured, beyond bumps and bruses. Injuries would have been catastrophic or deadly on a motorcycle, gear or not. One was head on with a Buick, the other, broad side into a box truck. Neither one would have been avoidable on a motorcycle, no visibility or maneuvering room. The Buick was wrong way on a curved bridge ramp, the box truck ran a stop sign from behind a building. I'll stick with my cage.

Since I'm not a motorcycle rider, I'll keep my mouth shut from now on. I don't get it and I know I don't. I love watching them race and the times I've ridden them have been exhilarating, but it's not for me. Y'all will have to have all the fun.

I ride motorcycles and fly airplanes. I must have a deathwish.

This thread has derailed, and has turned sour. I'm out.

Toyman01 wrote: Since I'm not a motorcycle rider, I'll keep my mouth shut from now on.

Don't. Especially don't because I kinda went on a rant.

You have thoughts and experiences and observations and opinions. I sure don't want to shut you down just because you don't ride.

In reply to foxtrapper:

I wear a full face helmet because I saw a guy wearing a half helmet slide down the road on his face when I was 16. He lived but most of his jaw was ground away. That kind of sticks with you. I have seen a couple deaths, similar to your stories. Like I said, I don't wear the gear to save my life, if you hit the wrong thing all the gear in the world won't do you any good. I wear it so that if I go down and if I don't hit anything hard, or at the wrong angle, then hopefully I won't have too many skin grafts.

In reply to Appleseed:

My fault. Sorry.

I love riding. I hate wearing the gear. I usually do wear the gear because I like to believe i know better. I hope that the day i have a bad crash is one of those days that i did wear the gear. I have seen folks hurt really bad doing dumb things. I have lost love ones, healthy and without flaws who simply passed in their sleep.

Live well, Love Much and Ride Long.

Toyman01 wrote: In reply to Appleseed: My fault. Sorry.

It isn't you. You don't ride. There is someone in this thread who does ride. And they're looking like a dick.

Fox, I seriously can't disagree with you more.

I've been both guys, flip flops and shorts.. And full suit of armor. I have some horrific scars from a slow off 30 years ago that pushed a lot of thread from a sweet Black Sabbath t shirt into a brush burn the size of a basketball. It was otherwise just a rookie mistake.

That would have been a non accident in any sort of reasonable protection. I was a E36 M3ty rider then. I might not have lived to be a better one if I was just a little less lucky. I can tell you that a long slide down the track in leathers at 47 is a whole lot less painful than a wheelie gone wrong when I was 25 in a t shirt and shorts though.

Being a good rider and wearing the gear is your best hedge against bad luck. A great rider without a helmet when he needs one is as ignorant a berkeley as the crap rider who comes up short against a train in full armor.

The smart bet it's knowing the risk, dressing for the crash and skillfully avoiding it every time.

But... We are all going to die. No one gets out alive. If you want to be more comfortable just before you go... more power to you. I mean that. What ever level of risk you are fine with is fine with me. But, like you said, don't kid your self or anyone else. It's not the crash you die in that the gear is for... It's the minor one you would otherwise need skin grafts and maybe English lessons after but just shake off. Because big hat and thick cloth.

The only way to make sure you are prepared is to always be prepared. Anything less is calculated risk above what is already assumed risk. So, the ATGATT guys are right.

Sometimes I'm with them 100% and sometimes I'm a little more comfortable but I know I'm a dumbass for doing it.

Read this and see how I really feel.

Huckleberry wrote: I've been both guys, flip flops and shorts.. And full suit of armor.

It isn't an either/or choice. Not riding with armored motocross boots does not mean a person rides with flip-flops.

There are lots of choices in between. Don't be one of those who refuse to believe it's possible. There's more then enough of them already.

I think this thread is thoroughly derailed

Did anyone other than Appleseed actually read the article? It's about the positive effects on the brain that motorcycle ridding stimulates, not accidents, crashing, gear or lack thereof.

On that last subject, one of the reasons that I gave up riding regularly when I moved to an urban area is because of all the careless idiots in their cages, but I'm not completely sure that I'm better off for that choice. My mind misses the the mental exercise. Competitive auto sports are similar, but not the same, and comes in to small a dose to infrequently.

I'm going to make an effort over the next year to get back into Dirt biking, even if its only one Saturday or Sunday afternoon a month. My mind and soul need it, and my body could stand the workout too.

I wonder if they did the same test on private pilots if they'd find the same thing?

The article discovered that former rider who haven't been on a bike for at least 10 years aren't as good at it or as comfortable riding as people who ride every day.

Im not sure how that's supposed to be a new discovery. Anyone getting back on a bicycle or roller skates knows this.

Nor do I see how this indicates one is overall smarter in any way. Yes, a current rider is almost certainly a better and more practiced rider than one who hasn't ridded for a decade. But smarter? I don't see a reason to make that claim.