A disservice to an entire generation?

This might not make sense to anyone and could be way off base, but I thought it needed to be said anyway.

I'm not a touchy feely guy. I'm more of a tough love person and I'm pretty sure my kids have hated my guts from time to time. I let them lose, I let them get beaten in games and fights, I let the bigger kids win when they are better. Sometimes you just aren't good enough, and that's OK. I let them know that sometimes life sucks and you have to live with the consequences of your actions. I've been call mean, shiny happy person and worse, but my kids know what love is, they know what winning and losing taste like. They know what family is, how to work for what they want, and they know what is important in life.

I seriously think our society is doing a huge disservice to our children by not teaching them, at a young age, how to deal with negative emotions. Emotions like rejection, anger, fear, or even hate. Everyone want to pretend they don't exist, ignore it and it will go away. Nope, not in my experience. Emotional responses need to be learned, just like physical and mental ones do.

Everyone gets a trophy, nobody loses, everyone makes the team. I see a generation of kids that aren't going to be able to make it in the real world, because mom and dad never let them experience it, in small manageable bites when they were kids. Instead they get dumped in a high school with 4000 other hormone laden kids and sink or swim on their own. They have no emotional foundation. Their entire childhood has been about how special they are and how equal they are and all the sudden they find out it's all been a lie. That has got to be a crushing blow to a barely formed, emotionally unstable child.

Below is a news article about a 16 yo boy, that stabbed a 17 yo boy, over a snapchat message sent to a girl. I don't know if this is relevant but, this didn't happen in the projects, this is the silver spoon side of town. These boys went to the HS I did and my two eldest kids did. This isn't the gang war in the projects. This is two boys with everything in the world going for them, fighting to the death, over a girl. It hits pretty close to home for me, my middle son is 15.

http://www.wspa.com/story/27884282/1-teen-dead-another-charged-in-fatal-stabbing-over-snapchat-message

I realize this is two boys out of thousands and most kids manage to grow up without going on a killing spree. But more and more, this seems to be common place and sometimes it really gets out of hand.

Do me a favor, if you have kids. Let Them Lose. Let them know that life is hard sometimes. It's part of life and they need to experience it and learn from it, just like every other lesson you teach them. Don't do a disservice to them and only teach them part of what they need to know.

Thanks for listening,

Allen.

TLDR, move on.

Pussification of America, my friend.

"A disservice to an entire generation?"

I thought this thread was going to be about GM cars in the 70's and 80's..

Anyway.. What a tragedy..

Don't even get me started on these idiotic 'zero tolerance policies' in schools to prevent admins from having to think.
My son's high school has two pending lawsuits from students who were suspended for defending themselves. Truly pathetic.

But what if they are the only driver in their junior kart class?!

My 2 cents.

Parents do overprotect their kids. We are literally told we have to, from school administrators setting silly rules to mandatory car seat laws that have no real basis in reality.

That said, I have a hard time believing the sky is falling regarding "kids these days." People said the same thing about my generation, and the one before it, ad infinitum.

i was told, as my kids will be told, repeatedly, that zero tolerance is not MY policy. if you start it, i will finish it, and the consequences will be bad. however, if someone else starts it, you damn well better finish it. and if you come home with a black eye, an expulsion letter, and a good story, then we'll share a beer, call his dad and cuss him out, and find you a new school in the morning.

i agree with you 100% my friend. my kids are only 2. the world has another good 8-10 years to get even worse before they have to start dealing with life, emotions, and losing like a man/woman (i have boy/girl twins).

you don't get a trophy for 43rd. even 4th is pushing it in a field of less than 500.

if the team needs 30 people, and 35 people are better than you, your out. try harder, be better next time. and stop whining about it.

interestingly enough, i think the class of people who feel the way i think most of us GRMers feel is starting to move to the K-12 program. the home school environment allows you to teach things like the constitution, the 10 commandments, and REAL sex ed, without watering it down and lowering the bar to the slowest kid in a class of damn near forty. i know its not possible for everyone, but theres ways around two working parents. co-ops, night classes, even night shift, which is what im doing so i can be ready to educate when the time comes.

i think the issue we have here is that the school systems have become the parents, and then when it all goes to hell, no one blames the actual parents.

raise your kids, teach em right from wrong, let em fail from time to time, (even REALLY hard sometimes), and give them half a chance to succeed. because when the time comes to apply for a job, and theres 35 people more qualified than your child, he wont get a 'spot on the team'...

-J0N

Yeah, you read about the family in MD who got CPS called on them for letting their 12 and 7 yr old walk home together (total of a mile)?

Regardless- I let my kids lose, it breaks my heart something fierce, but I have to do it. My son started wrestling, and he's going to lose his first match, no matter what, and that's going to be really hard for me. I just hope he doesn't give up, but we'll see how my parenting has been so far.

I'm 54, and I was raised in a very peaceful family. I never learned how to argue, so now I either walk away, or fight to the death. Conversation as competition isn't great, and I wish I'd heard more arguments as a kid.

I agree that kids learn about "Hot" from leaning on the stove way better than they will from long counselling sessions, but there should be someone close enough to keep them from pulling the boiling pot of potatoes on their heads.

Combine the many excellent points that Toyman made, with the "news" and "entertainment" that kids are exposed to these days, that show them how the most outrageous members of society deal with what may or may not be "reality", and we're gonna have a bad time, mmmmmmk?

It's absolutely a disservice to all our future generations to not allow children to learn how to deal with stressful situations and powerful emotions early on.

In reply to bastomatic:

There is a certain truth to what you say. I'm sure kids have been murdering kids for as long as there have been kids on this earth. As a society we expect a certain amount from the "projects" or the "hood" and blame it on gangs, or drugs.

But consider this.

The 17 yo got up yesterday, climbed in his Corvette and drove to school. He was on Instagram yesterday afternoon with a local SCCA Corvette driver, talking about cars and autocross. Last night he died with a knife in his gut because he sent a electronic message to a girl.

The 16 yo's day probably started much the same. Now he's sitting in jail, wondering what the hell he just did. Wondering why he couldn't control his emotions. I contend, his parents never taught him to.

I'm betting neither one of them got that lesson.

We have a large group of kids who aren't being taught to control emotions. Probably started in the 50s but has gotten to where it's in the rules now. Thou Shalt Not Suffer The Pain Of Loss or Failure.

Here's another article from today.

http://www.people.com/article/high-school-basketball-coach-suspended-161-2

Coach suspended because his team stomped a rival team. WTF? Why, because it hurts the other team's self esteem. Sorry, I call BS. Basket ball is a game to be won. One team learned what winning is like, the other learned nothing because society just told them that the winners were the bad guys.

The honorable way to handle this situation is for the losing coach to throw in the towel or forfeit the game. BTDT, with a men's softball team. When we formed the team we sucked, bad. We forfeited many games when the score got up into the 40s to 0. We'd laugh about it and show up for practice a little earlier. Losing encourages effort. We never got good, but we did get better. There is nothing wrong with sucking at something. There is something wrong with being mad at someone else because they don't.

I wonder if this isn't going to be an epidemic problem by the next generation.

In reply to Teh E36 M3:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/maryland-couple-want-free-range-kids-but-not-all-do/2015/01/14/d406c0be-9c0f-11e4-bcfb-059ec7a93ddc_story.html

Child services did more to screw up those kids than the parents have.

A few of you guys sound much like my dad, and that's a good thing. Keeping kids in cotton wool does them zero favours. Kids need to learn the full spectrum of emotions, happy becomes meaningless without sadness. A sense of achievement is almost worthless if your praised for everything you do. And the the anti smacking brigade out there..... If it wasn't for a good smack or clip around the ear hole when I berkeleyed up bad enough to warrant it, I'd probably be locked up by now.

If I end up having kids, they'll be getting the same treatment, parents aren't there to be best friends with their kids, they are there to raise them into functional human beings who will be able to cope with the big bad world once they leave the nest. By giving kids everything and never letting them experience negatives you only end up with spoilt brats.

My old man and I really didn't get in till after I left home, but now that I've proven that I can pay my way in the world and function as an adult we have a far better relationship. So much so that my brother who still lives at home struggles to understand how come dad and I get on so well while dad continues to ride his ass and bust his balls... The answer dear brother... Dad doesn't have to be a parent to me anymore, we can shoot the breeze and enjoy a beer as 2 men.

I thought this was going to be about American Sniper.

Toyman01 wrote: In reply to bastomatic: There is a certain truth to what you say. I'm sure kids have been murdering kids for as long as there have been kids on this earth. As a society we expect a certain amount from the "projects" or the "hood" and blame it on gangs, or drugs. But consider this. The 17 yo got up yesterday, climbed in his Corvette and drove to school. He was on Instagram yesterday afternoon with a local SCCA Corvette driver, talking about cars and autocross. Last night he died with a knife in his gut because he sent a electronic message to a girl. The 16 yo's day probably started much the same. Now he's sitting in jail, wondering what the hell he just did. Wondering why he couldn't control his emotions. I contend, his parents never taught him to. I'm betting neither one of them got that lesson. We have a large group of kids who aren't being taught to control emotions. Probably started in the 50s but has gotten to where it's in the rules now. Thou Shalt Not Suffer The Pain Of Loss or Failure. Here's another article from today. http://www.people.com/article/high-school-basketball-coach-suspended-161-2 Coach suspended because his team stomped a rival team. WTF? Why, because it hurts the other team's self esteem. Sorry, I call BS. Basket ball is a game to be won. One team learned what winning is like, the other learned nothing because society just told them that the winners were the bad guys. The honorable way to handle this situation is for the losing coach to throw in the towel or forfeit the game. BTDT, with a men's softball team. When we formed the team we sucked, bad. We forfeited many games when the score got up into the 40s to 0. We'd laugh about it and show up for practice a little earlier. Losing encourages effort. We never got good, but we did get better. There is nothing wrong with sucking at something. There is something wrong with being mad at someone else because they don't. I wonder if this isn't going to be an epidemic problem by the next generation.

I agree with you, I played basketball and baseball growing up. Was I good, nope I was short, fat, slow and sat on the bench. But I tried and I practiced. Did my parents whine at the coaches and pta meetings because I didn't get to play even though we were ahead by 15? No my dad just told me to practice harder. I wish I had some rudy esqe motivational ending but I dont, I just wasn't good. But I tried, and I think if I was that sucky fat kid playing today, with today's parents they would be Making them let me play and I'd be getting a participation trophy. No thanks. That doesn't teach anybody anything

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I thought this was going to be about American Sniper.

Plastic baby gate

Also someone needed to talk some sense into that other kid.

If someone tells you " come over here and. I will kill you". Don't go over there.

I do get the point though. My wife is a teacher and has dealt with too many kids who have never been told no. losing is one thing. Tell them know sometimes as well, so they know they can't always have what they want at the snap of the fingers.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

That could be as simple as no one ever told him, "Come over here and I will kick your ass," and did. Those are all valuable lessons to be learned.

I had several discussions with my eldest about his alligator mouth and his hummingbird ass when he was growing up. The only lesson he remembers is getting his butt kicked when his mouth wrote a check his ass couldn't cash. I made sure he wasn't going to loose any permanent teeth, put ice on the black eye, a bandaid on his skint elbows and said, "I've been warning you about this." I didn't call the cops, the other kids parents or send him in for counseling. He's 27 now with three kids of his own and doing a damn fine job of raising them.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: If someone tells you " come over here and. I will kill you".

How many times... "Blech! Smell this. It's terrible" what do you do? You berkeleying smell it. I'm pretty sure we can't ever disregard something as interesting as "taste this, it's poison" or "come over here, I'll kill you".

Toyman01 wrote: "I've been warning you about this." ...and some other words...

I don't disagree at all. My kids grew up in a much better neighborhood than I did. I'm glad they don't need to fight or deal with lunatics every damn day... but part of me wishes they had to deal with a little more adversity than they do. I think we are probably close to the same age and are the last generation to understand that not being able to have a punch in the nose to settle things (as savage as that seems) leads to a sucking chest wound of pent up rage for someone over some trivial E36 M3 eventually.

I let the kids lose. I let them dislike me when it's in their best interest. I let them fight with each other. I've made fun of them for being Bob Costas. I'm really not sure if I am preparing them for the world they live in or trying to give them a taste of the one that I was steeped in. They seem to be turning out to be better humans than I am. It's probably their mother's influence.

A friend was just arrested for child abandonment.

She let her 8 year old walk 1/2 a block to the playground unaccompanied.

She lives in the SAME HOUSE she grew up in. Her mother let her walk to the same playground unaccompanied from the time she was 4. They never arrested her.

Bob Costasfication.

In reply to SVreX:

You are taking some creative license with the story, yes?

My 8yr old had repelled off a 200' cliff and ridden his bike thru a busy intersection to get to the other side... he was left at a ball field unattended for a whole Saturday on numerous occasions. He is 12 today. I am still a free man.

There is more to the story methinks (busybody neighbor? priors? etc).

Toyman,

I've had to do a lot of research on this topic as it's tangentially related to my masters degree and I'm one of those "millennials" which seem to attract so much disdain from the Baby Boomers and early Gen Xers. To a certain extent the problem was caused by those two generations and the much maligned helicopter parenting techniques. Parents couldn't just stay out of their childrens lives because there was so much pressure from early boomers and traditionalists to go to college get an education and not work in a trade because a) it can be hard dirty work and b) it wasn't perceived as the way to get rich.

The result was parents essentially guiding, pushing, or sometimes bulldozing the way for their children every single step of the way through primary school to get into the best colleges possible so they could potentially gain a leg up on life. Coupled with the absolute insistence on being PC everywhere at any time and No Child Left Behind you come up with the perfect E36 M3 storm. The last several years have supposedly had a pretty serious impact on parenting in that manner because since the economy tanked many families have had to resort to having both parents working again.

For the record, I am a millennial as much as I hate the term and the majority of my generation, I am an A&P mechanic, I have a 9 month old daughter, and I work very very hard so that my wife can stay at home with her full time.

My wife and I both agreed there won't be any praise of "how smart she is" phrased in that manner. I'll encourage her and tell her she did a good job then encourage her to do something harder. She will learn what failure feels like because that's the only way to motivate her to figure out problems and learn the discipline to keep going back after whatever it is she is trying to accomplish. That's a lesson I didn't learn until my third disastrous year of college and I don't want her to learn it that late.

This might also be an interesting read for you: http://qz.com/293849/how-baby-boomers-ruined-parenting-forever/

We've actually moved "down" a neighborhood, though I think it was more like across. We lived in Mt. Pleasant, where this murder happened, until 3 years ago and I grew up there. We moved for several reasons. One of which was the "form over function" vibe the town was getting. Everything was about the looks, not the substance. Keeping up with the Jones'. The cars you drove, the places you vacationed, the people you hung out with. It was driving me crazy, and I grew up in that town. My youngest, at the age of 6, started calling it Mt. Plastic, rather than Mt. Pleasant. I just called it Mt. Misery. The hipsters, urban elite and snobbs, had taken over, traffic was over the top, and we'd had enough. So we packed up and moved to a more working class town about 20 miles away. I still own the house and rent it to a couple of want to be hipsters/snobs.

I worried when we moved, that the schools where we are now aren't as well rated as the ones in Mt. Pleasant, but I honestly think they are getting a better education here. It's a more complete education. They haven't even had to get in a fight to get it. It's just better people. People that know the value of work and family and friends. Where we are now reminds me of Mt. Pleasant 30 years ago when I was growing up. My guess is, by the time I get the last two out of HS and into college, it'll be time to move again. Maybe a little farther out of town.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: In reply to SVreX: You are taking some creative license with the story, yes? There is more to the story methinks (busybody neighbor? priors? etc).

Nope.

No priors. Possibly busy body neighbor, but that doesn't change that she was arrested.

The Department of Family Services is obscenely powerful in GA. I have several friends who have been arrested because they home school, and had their children taken away for a first "offense" (actually, nothing more than a false accusation of truancy from a nosy neighbor).

Wake up. Facts are scarier than fiction.