A disservice to an entire generation?

Tom_Spangler wrote: This again? 50s parents: Rock and roll is destroying a generation. 60s parents: The anti-war/hippie movement is destroying a generation. 70s parents: Drugs are destroying a generation. 80s parents: Materialism is destroying a generation. 90s parents: Laziness and grunge music are destroying a generation. 2000s parents: Video games are destroying a generation. 2010s parents: Wussification is destroying a generation. I wonder what it will be next decade......

Well, I was a parent in the 80s, 90s, 00s, and still am. The music, the games, and the dress code didn't and don't particularly bother me. Materialism, I nipped in the bud immediately.

Not teaching kids how to deal with powerful emotions and situations because they are uncomfortable isn't quite the same as not liking how they dress or what they listen to.

I think calling it the wussification of America is a red herring. It's not turning the kids into bad kids or goody two shoes. It's leaving some of them ill prepared to deal with some of the harsher realities of life. Most kids overcome it, but wouldn't their lives be much better if they were prepared in advance?

In reply to singleslammer: Took them a while to figure out what they wanted to do and knuckle down to finish college. None of them did that till their mid-20's so they didn't finish when they could have. But son from wife #1 now has a Masters, good job, wife is a PA and 2 kids. Oldest daughter has BA, good job w/Corps of Engineers, married with 1 kid. Youngest daughter has 2 Associates degrees and just started an RN program. She'll finish by age 30. Of course I'm not going to tell them it took me a while to settle down, longer than them but I was in the army so it appears different. I was a helicopter Flight Engineer and just spent my time flying & fixing the helicopter and partying at night. Didn't knuckle down for school till shortly before I retired and was 45 when I finished with a BA.

All that counts is they did find their way and on their own.

Adding in another interesting point...

When I was growing up, both of my parents worked for the majority of the time in one capacity or another (Dad active duty Army, Mom usually working with MWR/child services/teaching) so I had a lot of time on my own and left to my own devices. We weren't exceptionally well-off through most of my childhood as my Dad worked his way up from Captain (Chaplains pretty much all start there), but never really wanted for anything we needed. As was previously stated, competitive sports were just that- COMPETITIVE- and it pretty much fell to me to make sure I got my homework done on time and often had to cook for myself or occasionally start dinner for the family as a whole (I was taught to cook early on both at home & Scouts). Though I'm undeniably nerdy and introverted (despite what my wife may think at times) I'd say I turned out quite well- after getting pissed off at myself at the end of Middle School when I realized how lazy I'd been I buckled down and excelled in HS and went straight on to get a BS & MS in engineering and have worked as an engineering professional at a major aerospace company since right out of college.

My younger brother on the other hand is 15 years younger than I am, and was born once my Dad had hit LtC. Both of our parents were still working, but since my Mom was involved more with the child care services my brother spent a lot more time being looked after by individual caregivers who looked after a handful of kids each in their homes. We were much better off financially when he was born and as he grew up, and he has always gotten a lot more than I have as a result. He grew up though toward the beginnings of the 'participation award' era, and really never developed much taste for competition. We are both bookworms by nature, but I toward the end of Middle School realized that there was lots more to be seen and experienced in real life than on the pages of my books and made a conscious effort to DO more instead of reading.

My brother has in some ways gotten WORSE about this- this past Christmas my family was running around UT/NV/CA visiting family and we spent two nights in Vegas (non-consecutively). On the second one, my wife, brother, and I headed out to the Strip to try and catch a show we wanted to see and ended up having to kill a few hours because of only being able to get tickets to a later show. SWMBO and I were thoroughly enjoying the spectacle of walking around and seeing everything there was to see in the different casinos as we looked for something good for dinner (that wasn't horribly overpriced)- my brother had his nose buried in his phone the entire time reading fanfiction, at one point proudly stating how glad he was he'd been in marching band and could thus follow behind one of us just using his peripheral vision without looking up from his phone.

When he had trouble with getting homework in on time in HS (he'd often do it but simply forget to take it to school and turn it in), my parents basically took over managing it for him and checked every day on what assignments he had been given and what was due the next day. When he went off to college he floundered badly, eventually having to drop out and move back home due to essentially not going to ANY classes the last semester he was there and just hiding in his room and reading (he failed CHOIR for crying out loud...). He is now theoretically a semester away from finishing an online degree in either English or Literature, but even that early on was with my parents pestering him about assignments- though to some extent he's been more on his own the last year or so and seems to be doing at least OK.

Granted we're obviously two different people- but have and were raised by the same parents only 15 years apart in culture and approach. Every indication I've seen is that in terms of raw intellect he's not THAT much below me, he just never has any drive to USE it unless it's ranting about some Harry Potter alternate-universe fanfiction he's really into.

fritzsch wrote: I read something today about some law school professors not teaching about rape and sexual misconduct law because some students complain that it is traumatic... http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rape-law

Unless they were teaching by example, i can't possibly see how the berkeley that makes any sense whatsoever.

In reply to wlkelley3:

I see your point about not settling down. I still don't know if what I am doing is a long term thing. I want to be challenged but not sure how to find that in a healthy job that pays bills and provides growth. My problem has always been structure. I need something to point me in the right direction and light a fire under my ass. Without any definitive time line, I end up let stuff sit. Not really sure how to fix this with things like my auto projects...

singleslammer wrote: In reply to wlkelley3: I see your point about not settling down. I still don't know if what I am doing is a long term thing. I want to be challenged but not sure how to find that in a healthy job that pays bills and provides growth. My problem has always been structure. I need something to point me in the right direction and light a fire under my ass. Without any definitive time line, I end up let stuff sit. Not really sure how to fix this with things like my auto projects...

8 years ago, i took a job that i figured i'd only do for a year or two to get back on my feet.

Do i hate every single minute i'm working at this horrible job? Absolutely.

But that's part of growing up, i guess? (I don't mean that as a "get your E36 M3 together" statement, just maybe a harsh reality it took me awhile to figure out.)

In reply to Swank Force One:

Oh, I don't hate my job. It is actually a pretty sweet gig. I am just not sure that it is healthy for me since I don't get much out of it. Yes, I am making a whiny, new age bullE36 M3 post in THIS thread. I will probably be here at least another 3 years and then go on to something more interesting elsewhere in the GOV. I have to be here at least 10 years to make my retirement vestment. I am just so berkeleying bored here. It can't be healthy. Let the flaming me begin, I probably deserve it.

My "favorite" example of the pussification was recently, when my wife's cousin was disgusted that her son's grade school yearbook gave every student in the class a superlative. At that point, they are no longer superlative. The editors had to stretch to figure out what was "superlative" about each kid. One got "most shy"--i.e. "your kid made no impression on anyone". Pretty superlative.

Some friends in hiring positions are starting to complain about the fallout of this current trend of massive coddling/deification.

Swank Force One wrote:

fritzsch wrote: I read something today about some law school professors not teaching about rape and sexual misconduct law because some students complain that it is traumatic... http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rape-law

Unless they were teaching by example, i can't possibly see how the berkeley that makes any sense whatsoever.

I think the mindset is "if we pretend it doesn't exist, maybe it will go away." Not exactly proactive.

In reply to 1988RedT2:

Rod: Daddy, what's the red stuff coming out of kitty's ears?

Ned: No, son. No sirree, bob.

Ashyukun wrote: Adding in another interesting point...[a lot of good anecdotal information] Granted we're obviously two different people- but have and were raised by the same parents only 15 years apart in culture and approach. Every indication I've seen is that in terms of raw intellect he's not THAT much below me, he just never has any drive to USE it unless it's ranting about some Harry Potter alternate-universe fanfiction he's really into.

You were not raised by the same parents. Same human beings maybe, but they were different people. They had aged 15 years, had raised a son, and they were in a different time with different expectations.

My brothers and I were in the “everyone gets a trophy!” culture. I remember my dad downplaying the trophies, and I can remember thinking they didn’t mean much other than “I played on this team this year”. I do remember that the trophy my freshman year of high school for most improved player actually meant something.

I can definitely relate to your brother. I got a 4.0 my 8th grade year, because I was able to finish the homework on the bus home or in the morning or at lunch. Never had to do actual homework outside of maybe a book report or similar project. Freshman year was similar, but it was getting harder. Still didn’t do homework though, because it wasn’t necessary—I was acing the tests! That is what mattered to me. I found homework pointless. I also loved to curl up and get lost in a book;. It was easier than actually doing something, it allowed me to simply ignore life, because life was hard. Why clean my room when I could read a book (Harry Potter or Lonesome Dove or The Great Gatsby… was all over, although I am still infatuated with HP).

That was, and is a struggle through college and into real life. Scraped through college with decent grades in an extremely tough major. Now though, I’m still fighting it. Why would I try to plan this wedding, something I don’t care about (see note below) when I could look up a car, or read a book, or play with the stock market?

I personally think it is an issue of us being the first generation to grow up with the internet. Our attention spans are short. We get bored easier, or else don’t deal with boredom as well. We don’t experience highs or lows, everything is in the middle. When I start to feel bad, I go over to Wikipedia and distract myself. And because of that, I never experience the highs either. I fought getting a smart phone for a long time because of this; without a smart phone, I have to experience real life whenever I’m away from a computer. I’m getting much better, in my opinion. But I still have a long way to go. Sad to say, but I should probably give up all forums. I’ve been thinking hard about it, and am thinking of implementing a strict 30 minute a day policy for all internet time. Not sure how I’ll keep myself to it though.

EDIT: People probably don't think this or notice it, other than my fiance. I graduated college in 4 years, I have a good job, I get to work every day and am generally happy. But I think I'm depressed or else have some other mental issue going on with this in mind.

note: I do care about getting married to her, and I care about having the people that mean a lot to us there. I don't care about the lighting. I don't care about the flowers, and I don't care about the stupid centerpieces.

I always felt like the kids who were homeschooled had a far more skewed view of the world than the kid who grew up in public school and was bullied and beat up a few times. My BIL/SIL want to homeschool their kids and I think its going to be disaster especially since their oldest seems to have some developmental issues.

It's a two part deal: One, we're constantly told the world is a more violent place with far more creepy people with creepy thoughts roaming around and we should keep watch of our kids, and two, we ourselves are becoming more worried about things that were just a part of life.

People always gasp when I tell them I live in the city. "OMG someone was shot right down the street from you!" and I say "yea, but it wasn't me, so I think I'm ok." These same people run off to the suburbs, never talk to their neighbors, and huddle their kids inside.

My wife is an example of this. She was really coddled (emotionally) as a kid and I think she's starting to realize it has made her a naive person. She's very empathetic, and will just block negative ideas from her thoughts. Anything that isn't cheery and happy and bright is ignored. Her job and realization that its dangerous, dirty, and thankless work has really made her confront many negative "dark" thoughts.

One thing I think is an interesting change of urban and suburban culture is that kids view killing an animal as more traumatic than killing a human being.

My wife is vegetarian and can't get over the idea of things being killed to feed her, but can't reconcile the fact that millions of things live and die every second. Humans, kittens, single cell organisms, Thousand-Leggers. I kill a few of those myself in the fall - the thousand-leggers, that is. I'm not objecting her being vegetarianism (she's not one of the militant types), but I just wish she understood that we can't avoid killing things because it makes us unhappy. We've got to toughen up, looking at things ethically, logically, and realistically.

In reply to mtn:

I can relate to much of that myself- after SWMBO's pointing out several glaring points regarding it I'm supposed to go in for an evaluation to see if I might have ADD. I had much the same problems of focus- but had the fire of indignation from an incident at the end of middle school that allowed me to burn through the distractions and keep my eyes on what needed to be done. It was much easier in HS though- despite being in almost all AP classes the last few years, realistically I didn't ever have to really STUDY- I learned everything needed to ace the test in class and doing the homework (half the time during the class itself) and rarely had to actually study for anything.

This bit me in the ass the first year of college- I went from being one of the smartest of the kids in the school to being at a school where I was probably only about average smarts compared to my classmates. And everyone actually needed to STUDY outside of class to know everything for the tests, which I just didn't get and combined with probably starting one Calculus level too high initially that meant that my grades the first year were middling at best. It was a big shock to be doing so poorly- but one that made me re-evaluate what I was doing and put my nose seriously to the grindstone and do the studying I needed; when my brother hit a similar wall though, he'd always had my parents holding his hand and checking that he'd done his homework instead of being responsible for it- and his failure if he forgot- himself.

Your point about not being the same parents is a good one though- we were as a family in a very different place on almost all levels when he was born vs. when I was, and my parents had been through a lot. It just surprised me that they would take such a different, coddling, approach with my brother than they did with me. When he was born I was 15 and they could see that I was turning out decently well- why then choose to do things so differently and hand him everything on a platter and do everything you could for him instead of letting him do it- and learn from it- himself? He'll turn 25 this summer, and as I said should be 'graduating' with his online degree in something humanities related. He has absolutely no ideas or prospects for what he thinks he will DO with said degree.

It's continued to be a mystery to me, but not an uncommon one it seems- SWMBO's younger sister's upbringing was similarly very different than hers & her older brother's in that the sister has been given a lot more and given a lot more leeway- which resulted in her being pregnant at 18 by a boyfriend she's quite lucky never tried to marry her and having her family have to largely support her for a while, even moreso when the baby was born VERY premature. SWMBO has had to buy every car she's owned herself (first one I think had some assistance from her parents, but mostly came from her own saving)- her sister has been given every vehicle she's owned, including several VERY pricey and nearly new hand-me-down SUVs from her grandparents.