And One More Time, Now With More GRM Content!

My brake lines are shot on the Sprinter.  

I actually like to bend and flare brake lines, but I have never done bubble flares before.

I've always been poor/cheap with beater in the rust belt, so I've always used the cheap/poor double flare kit.  You know, the one that comes in the little red plastic box.   And I'm pretty good at using it, especially laying on my back under the vehicle reflaring the end of a brake line that twisted the end off because the tube was rusted solid to the fitting.

But now I need to buy a bubble flare kit.   Does anyone have one that they like that is compact?  I'm likely just going to get the KD Tools equivalent and call it a day, but maybe my mind can be changed.   But it needs to be compact, and I'm really not looking for something that needs to be used on a bench, or anything that costs $200+.

Like I said, I really don't mind the cheap style, and find them easy to use.

I have that exact set - worked fine making bubble flares on the GT6.

What some people do is  buy the short bubble lines and splice them with double flares into the original lines.

Not sure it's entirely kosher, but I've made a few hundred bubble flares over the last 40 years by not finishing a double flare made on that tool, and none of them have leaked.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

I've read that was possible.   But these flare tools are so cheap, I figured it really wasn't worth experimenting with.

I have two of those sets.  They are finnicky.  You have to cut the line perfectly square, usually more square than most tubing cutters can accomplish.  Then you use a reamer to debur the end of the tubing to micron-perfect precision.  Then you chuck it up to an incredibly precise depth and tighten the die onto it.  Half the time, the tubing just overcomes the clamping pressure and backs out of the vice.  30% of the time, the tubing just splits at the seam.  The remaining 20% of the time you'll get a completely smashed end of the tubing that looks like you smashed it with a rock.  Even when you get a flare that looks half decent, you'll notice that the pin in the center of the die has broken off inside the tubing and is now press-fit in the tubing behind the flare.  After making 27.2 attempts and crushing your confidence, you finally get a decent flare that doesn't leak when you bleed the brakes, but you drive around wondering if that one time when you'll need panic braking if the whole thing will just pop and send you hurtling off a bridge.  YMMV

I'm saving up for a decent flaring kit.

I have the lisle kit and it seems to work pretty well. The first attempt was bad but I take responsibility for that since I don't need no stinking directions. I think I paid $35 at the local parts house. The kit is fairly compact. Part number 31310. I should note that the local parts house treats me very well.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I'm not saying you are exaggerating, but you are exaggerating.

As I said, I have used the double flare version for years, and have none of the issues you've mentioned.  Under the vehicle, in tight places, even on the trail to fixed crushed or torn tubing.   Over 35 years.  No slipping, no splitting, no leaking, no broken tools.      And none of these are high dollar setups.  

The key to preventing slippage of the tubing is to get the wing nut TIGHT. Use the bar for the tool in the wing nit for leverage.  Tighten the wing nut closest to the tubing first, and then tighten the one further away and use the leverage to get it really tight.

I hardly ever use a tubing cutter, but when I do, I take my time and don't go too deep, as it will make a ridge on the inside of the tube that will make reaming the tube more difficult.   I use the reamer from a large tubing cutter on the inside, and usually a file on the outside.   A good tubing cutter will cut true, but I will often use a cutoff wheel, or even my Dremel.

The depth is the easiest of all.   I just match the amount of stickout to the height of the base of the double flare adapter.  Just lay it on the clamp next to the tubing and match the height.  This is also a perfect time to check if the cut is square, as you can easily match it up to the adapter.


Finally, I hear of people breaking the adapter.   I still don't know how they do this.   The only thing I can think of is somehow they are using a bent piece of tubing where it sticks out, a really crooked cut, the tool isn't lined up correctly, or the tubing it sticking out too far.   Possibly a combination of all four.

barefootskater (Shaun) said:

I have the lisle kit and it seems to work pretty well. The first attempt was bad but I take responsibility for that since I don't need no stinking directions. I think I paid $35 at the local parts house. The kit is fairly compact. Part number 31310. I should note that the local parts house treats me very well.

 

That's a double flare tool.  I already have a double flare tool, and it works fine.

I'm looking for a bubble flare tool.

In reply to Cooter :

Oh, oops. 

I’ve got the OTC 4504 kit.  I haven’t used it heavily, but it has worked fine when I have used it.

Cooter said:

Finally, I hear of people breaking the adapter.   I still don't know how they do this.   The only thing I can think of is somehow they are using a bent piece of tubing where it sticks out, a really crooked cut, the tool isn't lined up correctly, or the tubing it sticking out too far.   Possibly a combination of all four.

Metallurgy. I've broken a few of the cheap version of this tool. Then I spent the coin on a Blue Point and have not had a problem since. They all look the same but they're not all made the same.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

My double flare tool is the cheasiest no-name one (the least amount of) money could buy from one of those generic "Tool Store" establishments that would pop up on the side of the road selling Chinesium. 

Never had an issue with it, and it has been through everything, riding around in my emergency tool kit.   I tossed a mini tubing cutter, some spare fittings and garage sale adapters over the years, but I have yet to break any of them. 

I'm going to say you got lucky. Maybe someone threw some old Holden pistons into the mix that day when they were pouring the pot metal. 

I've returned a couple of AutoZone free loaners with the yokes in multiple pieces. They were not surprised. My point is that you cannot always blame the user for failures of the cheapest possible tool. I did not change the way I worked, I simply purchased a tool from a more consistent supplier and the failures stopped.

You can double down by claiming my kit is special, but I'm not buying it.   I've used other cheap sets over the years that friends have owned when I worked on their cars, and I  had one that I lost in a divorce, one I left at my parents' house when I moved out, and one that is my home flaring kit.  They were all the cheapest I could buy at the time.  None was over $25 (the most recent).  Some were less than $15 (the ones bought in the '80s).
The one in the photo I posted earlier is my emergency kit, as stated, traveling in my truck on road trips.  

Never broke any of them.   The only way I can see to break the adapter is to get a side load on the pin.  All it does is locate the adapter in the tubing.    You claim I am blaming the user, but I am just stating my personal experience, and trying to figure out how it would happen with a part that shouldn't have any side load on it.    
 

I hated the cheap sets and bought a mastercool hydraulic dlare set. It is not cheap. Or compact. 

But i NEVER dread a flare anymore. Or any brake work. Its just the best damn tool for brake and fuel lines ive ever had my hands on.

We're talking about different parts, I realize. I've broken multiple yokes on cheap tool kits. That the part that's doing the actual squeezing. You're talking about the little flare forming doohickey. Never broken one of those. 

Miata stock brake lines are made of something really hard, it's a bitch to flare. Lots of stress on the yoke. 

I had a pretty low success rate with a few inexpensive kits.   I went to a mid-range $90 ridgid kit and haven't looked back!

If you think that you are never going to use this type of tool again, go cheap.  That's what I have done and then the next time I have to use the tool I realize that I really did not save any money.   Having a tool that made flares trouble free would be great.  And I do have the answer.  I just need a friend that has a really great flaring tool....

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) said:

I hated the cheap sets and bought a mastercool hydraulic dlare set. It is not cheap. Or compact. 

But i NEVER dread a flare anymore. Or any brake work. Its just the best damn tool for brake and fuel lines ive ever had my hands on.

Same here, hell I walk around the neighborhood looking for people that need flares done now.

I have this type that I got off the Mac truck years ago. 

Nice and compact, easy to get nice straight flares. The above picture is from NAPA, but I've seen 'em for sale elsewhere. It uses different pucks for the double and bubble flares though.

In reply to noddaz :

I think I am going to use it again.  Quite a bit, actually.   And I already have this type of tool.  And have used it, and others for 30+ years.   See the photo I posted above of the one that I own that is 20+ years old.   I am very comfortable with it.   I like it.  Easy to carry, easy to use, compact, and I can use it most anywhere, especially in tight places.  And I have saved money, because I am able to use it in places where I am not able to use the $200+ tools.   The majority of my flares have had to be on the vehicle.   That ends up making the expensive tools a useless place holder in my tool chest.  

Keith Tanner said:

We're talking about different parts, I realize. I've broken multiple yokes on cheap tool kits. That the part that's doing the actual squeezing. You're talking about the little flare forming doohickey. Never broken one of those. 

Miata stock brake lines are made of something really hard, it's a bitch to flare. Lots of stress on the yoke. 

I can see the yokes may break due to poor quality control, or in the case of a rental, someone before you over tightening it to make a flare.   I have been lucky enough to have ever had that issue. But I have never flared lines on a Miata, so maybe that is the difference.  Just Big 3 and Jeep for the most parts, and aftermarket steel lines (I have some NiCop that I will be using on the Sprinter, however)  I also never rent tools. If I need it once, I may borrow it from a friend.   If I think I will use it more than once or twice, I usually buy the tool.   But I don't even like borrow from friends, either, so I usually buy what I need.   Having the tool on hand is always worth it.  Even for someone as cheap as me.