Angery people.

Are we seeing the beginnings of an angry revolution? Maybe the increasingly frequent mass shootings have a deeper cause than simple gun fascination or mental issues? 

There is a big imbalance in rewards for work. An imbalance beyond what effort, luck, connections etc. would suggest.  

Henry Ford became the richest man in America from modest beginnings simply by bringing mass transportation to the People. I don’t see that pathway available anymore. From an objective standpoint it’s highly unlikely  under present conditions that possibility will reoccur. 

Rednecks, Blacks, farmers, poor, women, minorities, middle class white men,  we all feel the deck is stacked against us.  

In fact it really is. There are 77,000 pages in the tax code maybe 25-30 apply to all of the above. That’s not even considering the legal precedents which are only available to those who can afford $1000 an hour legal fees that will likely run into the millions. 

The recent change in the tax laws only amplifies that divide.  In the past hard working intelligent people could find in those 25-30 pages a path to family success and wealth. Become a successful Doctor, Lawyer, computer security specialist etc. and you got a big deduction by owning an expensive home.  

Not anymore.  You are limited to only $500,000 and once below a certain point  it’s better to take the standard deduction.  

While a $500,000 home may seem like a lot to some the step from there to the 1% is so giant as to be impossible.  

There is a temptation to blame the political parties. 

Don’t, the system is set so the election of a candidate to state or national office requires millions of dollars or hundreds of millions of dollars. That doesn’t come from the $15-20 contribution, it comes from those with billions or hundreds of millions to protect.  In exchange for those giant contributions they get access to the politicians and it naturally follows that to get re-elected they will continue to do their bidding. 

Both parties work that way so let’s keep politics out of the discussion on how we the people regain the power that will stop the violence. 

Umm...  I fear this won't end well... 

I'm pretty sure there is a 100% chance that this thread will generate some Angry People. Namely a nice lady with an affinity for concrete. 

Though I agree, its best to back away from the thread slowly...

Idk, it has the potential for discussion. The school shooting thread made it a good long way before it got fished. 

That being said, I habe noticed an 8ncrease in anger...and I don't really know why. People are crabasses. Need to calm down and have a snapple. 

frenchyd said:

There is a temptation to blame....

There's your problem right there. It's way easier to try and blame others for shortcomings or strife than it is to realize that we have a role in them too. We all live in the same system. We have equal rights, but that doesn't mean that we all have equal opportunities. Everybody's situation and circumstance is different for a million reasons. Those who are successful are observant of trends, able to plan an alternative, and willing to make a change if necessary.  What they tend to avoid, is looking to blame others.

Interesting thoughts.  Some people seem to have this impression that "one person can make a difference!", then they eventually get burned out arguing about it, and realize that they aren't changing anything.  When most people come to that realization the accompanying realization is that, to really make the world better, start at home.  Work hard.  Raise a family.  Live according to "bourgeois norms".  Be....decent.  

You will probably never get rich.  But here's two secrets: 1) No one every really did (how many thousands of failures were there for one Henry Ford?  You only hear about the successes), and 2) it doesn't really matter, because inside of 100 years, you'll be gone, and the only thing left for 99.9999% of people are the memories their family keeps.  

There are some, though, who come to the above realization and then try to take one last grasp at changing the world...by doing something that _doesn't_ improve it.  They riot.  They protest.  They try to make other peoples' lives unpleasant.  Sometimes they even take away other peoples' rights.  None of these things really "hurt" the people they really are angry against; if anything, it helps them.  More laws are created.  More control is exerted.  Keep the majority of the people whipped up worrying about "folkdevils" while the 0.01% go on buying million dollar mansions and new AMGs every year.  

The bombings in Texas are the latest ecample.  So far, 2 people have died.  But it's the headline story on every national news outlet you care to listen to, watch, or read.  Does it really deserve that level of attention?  No.  But, the bubble-headed bleach blond can tell you 'bout the bombings with a gleam in her eye.  

xenu will save us. 

Ok, so can I read through the tea leaves a little here? OP is clearly fired up about tax issues related to homeownership. He's posted about his home several times in the past, and it sounds very impressive. He's also mentioned that he's sacrificed quite a bit to keep his home, and I think he's upset that some of the benefits he expected to be there are no longer present which makes all of his sacrifices more painful. Being upset is understandable, but I think pain can also teach us things. In this case the lesson might be that a large, expensive, opulent home might be more of an anchor around a person's neck than a strong financial foundation that OP seemed to think it was.

Lock on the 3rd page is my guess.

frenchyd said:

Become a successful Doctor, Lawyer, computer security specialist etc. and you got a big deduction by owning an expensive home.  

What?  I think you mean get a big deduction by having an expensive mortgage.

I find it interesting that the OP's root cause for the current anger level of people in the US is the tax code. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I just find it interesting. I agree that the tax code is a good indicator that our political structure is currently making policy that widens the gap between the top financial brackets and the financial majority. This isn't anything new, however. It's kind of what political systems do, for the most part. I think that trades increasing nationwide prosperity for increasing the short term prosperity of a minority, but I'm a scientist not an economist, so I could be wrong. 

But I'd say there are a lot bigger contributors to popular anger than the tax code.

In reply to ultraclyde :

I’m interested in what you feel is causing the anger.  

And. Do you feel that’s the core root of the problems in America? 

I think it's mental issues and how we treat them today vs. 50 or more years ago. Today more mental patients are out in society vs. the old days where they were committed to mental institutions. Plus society is not a close knit as it used to be so you don't have neighbors looking out for each other (and keeping an eye on the "bad apples") like the olden days. :(

ProDarwin said:

frenchyd said:

Become a successful Doctor, Lawyer, computer security specialist etc. and you got a big deduction by owning an expensive home.  

What?  I think you mean get a big deduction by having an expensive mortgage.

 

I stand corrected.  The ultimate point is that homeownership is part of the pathway to wealth.  Plus a pathway to contentment as opposed to anger.  

Home ownership reduces crime, home ownership provides a means to personalize your environment.  A feeling of in charge of your domain   

In reply to ultraclyde :

I'm speculating here, but I don't think he's upset about the tax code really. Framing this discussion as a societal issue helps to mask that he's upset because his house is his largest asset by far. Because of choices made in the past, his financial security is tied to his home at this point and that security is now changing. He could've left out all of the stuff about race, gender, socio economic crap and just vented about his situation directly but that's pretty personal.

fear leads to anger…anger leads to hate…hate leads to suffering.

I'm curious whether Canada or the US is the outlier here.  We have never been able to write off interest on a home mortgage.  Business interest only.   If that were the cause of mass shootings, Canada should be awash in blood.

You can learn a lot from lobsters.

smokindav said:

I think it's mental issues and how we treat them today vs. 50 or more years ago. Today more mental patients are out in society vs. the old days where they were committed to mental institutions. Plus society is not a close knit as it used to be so you don't have neighbors looking out for each other (and keeping an eye on the "bad apples") like the olden days. :(

OK but the “good old days” where they ( mental issue people) would be locked up had some pretty horrific abuses.  

My step mother underwent many many electroshock treatments and finally frontal brain lobotomy ( twice) because she was unhappy with her lot in life.  

frenchyd said:

ProDarwin said:

frenchyd said:

Become a successful Doctor, Lawyer, computer security specialist etc. and you got a big deduction by owning an expensive home.  

What?  I think you mean get a big deduction by having an expensive mortgage.

 

I stand corrected.  The ultimate point is that homeownership is part of the pathway to wealth.  Plus a pathway to contentment as opposed to anger.  

Home ownership reduces crime, home ownership provides a means to personalize your environment.  A feeling of in charge of your domain   

No disagreement there.  However, I'd be curious as to whether low crime, personalized environment, and a feeling of being in charge increases linearly with the price of the home.  My gut feeling is that it does not.  In other words, once you've made the leap from "renter" to "home owner" (or, at least, "mortgage holder"), the actual price of the home is of little relevance.  I know lots of people who own homes worth less than the median price of homes in this country today.  Most of them are proud, accomplished people.  

In fact, being over-extended on a home probably can correlate to a lot of _negative_ societal effects.  We purposely bought a LOT less home than we could "afford", and we're happy for it.  

It could be said that people's expectations of a 3,000 sq foot house with granite countertops in a Suburban cul-de-sac with a 2 car garage and hardwood floors throughout contributes to anger when they realize all they can afford is a 1500 sq foot mid century rancher on a postage stamp with street parking.  

I blame HGTV for the anger.  

Streetwiseguy said:

I'm curious whether Canada or the US is the outlier here.  We have never been able to write off interest on a home mortgage.  Business interest only.   If that were the cause of mass shootings, Canada should be awash in blood.

That's probably part of the issue. You've never been able to do that in Canada.  In America, we did, and now that's changing.  Folks react to change.  You're seeing the same thing with property taxes, now that those are being capped for deductions.  Some high tax states (NJ, California, NY, MA) are even trying to reclassify property taxes as "donations" so that they can keep being deducted on fed taxes.  How messed up is that?

frenchyd said:

ProDarwin said:

frenchyd said:

Become a successful Doctor, Lawyer, computer security specialist etc. and you got a big deduction by owning an expensive home.  

What?  I think you mean get a big deduction by having an expensive mortgage.

 

I stand corrected.  The ultimate point is that homeownership is part of the pathway to wealth. 

Agree to disagree.

frenchyd said: The ultimate point is that homeownership is part of the pathway to wealth.   

It CAN be, but that's not automatic. It can also lead to financial ruin if it's more house than one can afford. Prior generations may have been lead to believe that homeownership was automatically a wise financial decision, but we know that it's not always the case. Taking on too much debt or too big a house to reasonably maintain can be disastrous financially.

I liken it to my generation being told that college degrees were automatically a wise financial decision. So, people went $50k in debt to get worthless degrees without considering the fact that it's probably not a good idea to do so. Now they're baristas living with their parents.

Streetwiseguy said:

I'm curious whether Canada or the US is the outlier here.  We have never been able to write off interest on a home mortgage.  Business interest only.   If that were the cause of mass shootings, Canada should be awash in blood.

Sorry that’s what you took from my comment.  It’s a symptom not the cause. 

To avoid making it too long I settled on one item rather than a whole  page. 

Here’s maybe a better example.  My Father with nothing more than a high school degree was able by himself to provide an above average middle class life. Nice home new car every two years regular vacations. Had a cabin by the lake, provided for a comfortable retirement, Sent me to college and  took care of others.  

I with a college degree, With the help of my late wife’s full time efforts, couldn’t approach what he did.