In reply to Cone_Junkie:
All of this would be solved via a switch to VBulletin. 
In reply to Cone_Junkie:
All of this would be solved via a switch to VBulletin.
Cone_Junkie wrote: Correct, but Braverence said something to the effect of "Again you post with no proof to back it up and why are we arguing on a race car forum of all places." My reply was directly to that post, hence the "In Reply to Braverence" on my post.
Try "quoting" instead of "replying" and remove any doubt of comprehension.
oldsaw wrote:Cone_Junkie wrote: Correct, but Braverence said something to the effect of "Again you post with no proof to back it up and why are we arguing on a race car forum of all places." My reply was directly to that post, hence the "In Reply to Braverence" on my post.Try "quoting" instead of "replying" and remove any doubt of comprehension.
I should probably just stop arguing on the internet. Much less frustrating
(Just don't quote me on that
oldsaw wrote:Cone_Junkie wrote: Correct, but Braverence said something to the effect of "Again you post with no proof to back it up and why are we arguing on a race car forum of all places." My reply was directly to that post, hence the "In Reply to Braverence" on my post.Try "quoting" instead of "replying" and remove any doubt of comprehension.
Like this? I actually did say something about him making this argument on an automotive message board, and when he mentioned that it reminded me. And I did say something about people (not CJ in particular) continuing to not offer any factual information, and I did delete that reply. But I NEVER replied to or mentioned the dust bowl topic specifically, because frankly I don't care about it. But I have a problem with people who name call, make personal accusations, and say things that are clearly putting words in my mouth. I'm just funny that way.
ronholm wrote: I am completely aware human beings might and most likely are having negative impacts on the world around us. I fully and steadfastly hold a core belief we had ought to be good stewards of our environment. I also strongly believe a political play to grab power based on some far fetched notions of "save de erf" is going to do a heck of a lot more harm than good.
This is more of my stance(not antistance ) on it.
Ransom summed it up well, there will not be very good dialogue on this because both sides always resort to satire and/or name calling. Better PR would have been a good start. Unfortunately, I think that time has passed.
Al Gore was too much of a political figure to be the unofficial spokesperson of global warming/climate change.
Al Gore was about the last person who should have become an unofficial spokesperson...total freakin' disaster.
In reply to GameboyRMH:
I believe that's at least in part due to him not caring as much about climate change as he does about increasing his wealth. He was worth 10 mil when he got out of office, and as of a couple years ago he was worth 100 mil.
bravenrace wrote: In reply to GameboyRMH: I believe that's at least in part due to him not caring as much about climate change as he does about increasing his wealth. He was worth 10 mil when he got out of office, and as of a couple years ago he was worth 100 mil.
Gore is small potatoes compared to the cadre of corrupt politicians, organizations and companies whose aim is to siphon trillions of dollars toward their own interests, err, pockets.
Regardless of climate-change science accuracy, the agendas of too many of its' proponents are highly suspect and a toxic influence on reasonable debate.
Curmudgeon wrote: Wow. Anyway, the way I see it is the climate has always been cyclical, as is the carbon dioxide and O2 levels in the atmosphere. All the evidence that's currently available does NOT conclusively prove that we humans are truly wrecking it. That does NOT mean we should foul our only nest! Regardless of global.warming, climate change or whatever's the term du jour, we DO need to clean up our act. That's how to appeal to me and get my support. I bet a whole lot of people feel the same way.
Quoted because this, THIS, should be the point of this post.
Cone_Junkie wrote: I should probably just stop arguing on the internet. Much less frustrating
Maybe the problem is that you are compelled to argue instead of engaging in measured, fair-minded conversation?
And, yeah, I just quoted you on that.
As soon as people start speaking in caps, I lose interest in the discussion.
In reply to Lesley:
I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!!!!
Ransom wrote: My concern is that we'll be in dire straits long before measurements can be so precise. And while I agree that you have a valid point about rushing things through, the *general* stance on the side of the fence you appear to be mostly on is that we need do nothing at all for now. I would argue that the conservative, safe approach at this point is to be making firm, considered movement toward less pollution, renewable energy, etc... If we don't do it too stupidly, there isn't really a downside. It's really kind of a "let's move toward stopping E36 M3ing where we eat" kind of movement. The panic level needed may be arguable, but the idea that we shouldn't be working meaningfully toward that end now is, in my opinion, without merit. That's my two cents, intended as a respectful response. I'm almost certainly overstating the specificity of proof that you'd like, but I think the gist is close? I think my opinion of how to proceed in the absence of certainty is really the most salient point.
This is also intended as a respectful response, so please don't read criticisms as being directed at you, just the general debate overall.
That being said, what is the right path forward? The "97% of scientists that agree", coupled with 400% (humor intended) of politicians and fund-seekers for "green" projects could very easily have biased goals. Using some popular current examples:
-We need ethanol to save the Earth and wean ourselves off foreign oil!!!! --> Oops, it has the unintended consequence of ruining older fuel systems on vehicles, and not so older fuel systems on small engines, doesn't keep as long, has reduced fuel economy, AND most of the petroleum saved at the pump is still used, just now on the backside for ethanol production. Additionally, farm crop used for biofuels can be used as livestock feed in many cases, the reverse isn't true for gasoline :). I'm not arguing right or wrong here, I'm saying these are things people didn't realize going in when they thought ethanol was going to save the world. Unintended consequences and all that.
-Alternative power: Hydro-electric effects huge areas of ecosystems downstream. Wind farms are not always on, and can be harmful to local wildlife. Solar is also on a when-possible, not as-needed basis due to weather, and to ramp up production would require huge areas of land. The chemicals used to make the panels are quite nasty....how do we recycle them cleanly and efficiently?
-Electric cars have range issues, and battery disposal issues. Hybrids have the range, but have similar disposal/recycle issues. Yes, there are ways to recycle most of them....are they cost effective? ANd directly related...are they actually practiced? Most industrial scrapyards can't be operated profitably in the US anymore due to...environmental regulations! So what's the plan for these products 10, 20, 100 years down the road?
That's probably enough examples, but it's certainly ironic to me that people most vested in climate change put their opponents down because the consequences ARE JUST TOO HIGH IF WE DON'T ACT......yet in many cases the proposed solutions either haven't been fully examined or are 100% guaranteed to save the planet....if only the government will extend a $100 million grant to finish up the little details. The people that say no to that aren't necessarily stupid or even disagreeing! They just question whether the money is well spent compared to other options.
The only things I KNOW with certainty:
-The Earth's climate will continue to change regardless of human contribution...if that ever stops, we have bigger problems!
-The news making a big deal about the most extreme weather in 30 years is like me talking about extreme variation in rpm of my engine....during the first .0007 seconds of startup
-We should absolutely be good stewards of the Earth. That means different things to different people, but there are probably some universals that work we could agree on and start with, and go from there. How about getting everyone in the country 100% onboard with recycling their cans, bottles, newspapers, cardboard? Making it a crime (with high penalty) to litter and throw cigarette butts anywhere but the trash, and actually enforcing it? Cars and trucks are already pretty well sorted, I honestly think we could freeze emissions at current levels for the next 100 years and be fine. Tell the OEMs to save their calibration and development money and put it into fuel economy.
That's all random thoughts, my big (wildly unpopular, even to me) idea is worldwide birth control. Limit people to 1 kid each, and we'll have this destroying the Earth problem solved in 4-5 generations, tops :) . Not necessarily a good idea, but I can guarandamntee it would produce results.
Ultimately, when we have another 20,000 years of data, let's circle back and see how we all did :).
If history is honest with itself, It’ll remember Al Gore as the single biggest eco-terrorist to have ever lived.
I will not look the other way despite the incessant attempts to shame nonbelievers into capitulation.
It’s a given that human activity is effecting our climate and it’s a near given that the effects are negative. What’s unknown is the percent contribution we’re making and the tipping point where the earth’s self stabilizing mechanisms will be overwhelmed.
Given the limitations of science and the severe consequences of getting this wrong, we should be good stewards of our planet.
Unfortunately, our attempt to be good stewards was an unprecedented failure resulting in Al Gore’s laughable carbon credit bull E36 M3.
I don’t believe there have been any consequences to this blatant attempt to exploit the green initiative for personal gain…nope, just double down on the taunting and ridicule.
Any legitimate attempt to improve the global climate would not just include but would be focused on cleaning up emerging economys' horrifically dirty energy production systems.
Of course, that’d involve actual work with little money to be made so forget it.
I’m not suggesting we do nothing unless everyone else does, I get that change has to start somewhere.
What I am saying is that creditability needs to be redeemed which is going to require time and good faith efforts and next time around, we need to be honest about what really needs to be done.
Curmudgeon wrote: Wow. Anyway, the way I see it is the climate has always been cyclical, as is the carbon dioxide and O2 levels in the atmosphere. All the evidence that's currently available does NOT conclusively prove that we humans are truly wrecking it. That does NOT mean we should foul our only nest! Regardless of global.warming, climate change or whatever's the term du jour, we DO need to clean up our act. That's how to appeal to me and get my support. I bet a whole lot of people feel the same way.
+1. Global cooling/warming/E36 M3 we can't keep up/climate change is for profits. Cleaning up humanities act is what should count. Screaming "the sky is falling" with inaccurate data and then believing it to the point of a religious existence is no way to achieve any sort of goal.
This is in jest(just to keep panties from getting in a bunch)
My theory is that the earth will even itself out eventually, whether our puny race of pissants will be around to see that is a different story. There's my theory, where can I cash in to the tune of 6 figures a year for it?
One missed comet can take care of all of our polution problems. I guess techincally, it wouldn't be a "miss", more like a "Oh E36 M3, we never saw that one co................"
Face it, we have a serious God-complex. Look at the size of the universe. Hell, look at the size of our solar system. Look at how long we as a race have even been around to impact it. Then tell me how important we really are. One day we'll learn our place.
From a complaint about the weather this morning to a debate of global warming all the way to a God Complex. interesting twist.
It was cold this morning, BTW, our TV said it was -19F in Ann Arbor. Global warming or not, that sucks.
It was -4 when I left NW Indianapolis area at 7:15am. I think that puts us at 15+ days since the beginning of the year in negative temps.
Bobzilla wrote: One missed comet can take care of all of our polution problems. I guess techincally, it wouldn't be a "miss", more like a "Oh E36 M3, we never saw that one co................" Face it, we have a serious God-complex. Look at the size of the universe. Hell, look at the size of our solar system. Look at how long we as a race have even been around to impact it. Then tell me how important we really are.
^^^This. Until recently, the cumulative amount spent by all world organizations on protecting the earth from NEO’s (near earth objects) was less than the amount spent to staff the average Mc Donald’s. It’s a little better today but not much.
Anti-stance wrote: ...Al Gore was too much of a political figure to be the unofficial spokesperson of global warming/climate change.
Al Gore has had pretty much the same effect on Global Warming as Micheal Moore has had on gun control. 40% of the US population believe evolution is a silly lie by scientist, which sounds a bit too familiar.
So, how did I do? TRIPLE FLOUNDER!!!..... I totally win the internet...
78 degrees - no wind - clear skies - no projected rain -
In reply to aircooled:
I hacked the HAARP array and have been intentionally steering weather systems away from California......this was all shortly after I invested in spf 1000000 sunscreen.....My bad, I recommend you buy some sunscreen.
So it's snowing here. I used my cross country skiis in my yard with Tunakids #1 and #2 taking turns hanging onto my shoulders. That's way harder than it sounds.
In reply to tuna55:
Why is there not a video of this, sounds epic.
I like extreme weather. Bring it on and when the ocean is lapping at my door, I'll move.
Shot today while out cruising.
I pretty much don't trust any of the experts, on either side of the argument, and I damn sure don't trust the politicians or pretty much anyone that starts a sentence with "You have to..." or "It for the children..." So I'm just not going to worry about it.
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