I'm interested in learning about your profession. What field you practice in; likes/dislikes; thoughts on law school; why you chose to be an attorney; what would you have done differently (if anything); what advice would you give to someone (me) who is considering going to law school; etc., etc., etc..
Thanks in advance,
Dave
From what I have heard there is a HUGE glut of lawyers these days. Very difficult to find employment, especially if you don't come out of one of the big schools.
I've been with the my local county prosecutor's office (D.A. in other jurisdictions) for almost 23 years (10 years support work, 13 years as an attorney). I kind of stumbled into it to be honest. I started working there as a high school student and have been there ever since. In a certain sense, its a great job, interesting, challenging and I work with good people. But its also a tough, and often thankless, job. (I.e. it has almost nothing in common with the grateful victim and team high fives that conclude most "Law and Order" episodes)
Law school is a long, tough marathon of an endeavor. I was working at least part time while I was in school, so there were no high brow conversations about justice and the American way in the law library. Some of my co-workers who were "full time students" have much fonder memories. I'd recommend you read "One L" before you start to get serious about signing up for law school. At least know what you're getting into. It seems far fetched, but I saw every form of craziness described in that book at some point during my law school career. Take the LSAT and see how you do. It does, to a certain degree, give you some idea how you will fare in law school.
The question you need to answer is why you're headed in this direction. Money? There are much easier and more reliable ways to earn a solid living. Working for justice? Very much a hit or miss thing. Some days are good, some aren't. On the whole, the fact that we do good work is one of the major rewards for me. Love to argue? Worst reason ever to go to law school. A good attorney is someone who is able to fully understand and digest both sides of an issue, then explain both sides to judge or jury picking out often fairly fine points that support their case. Hard headed idiots (the kind of people who think they are "good at arguing" because others get tired of discussing things with them) make terrible attorneys.
My wife says her law degree is the most expensive mistake she's ever made. I'm OK with it. It's better than me being the most expensive mistake she's ever made...
alex
UberDork
7/25/13 12:34 a.m.
My (basically) wife is a criminal defense attorney in private practice.
She hated law school, said it was basically high school with more money and ego. (Washington University, for the record.) She doesn't really care for her current practice, as she's kind of stuck doing piddling DUI, drug cases and some messy family/estate junk. She loves appellate work, because she's deeply into constitutional law, but as full time work that's a hard nut to crack when you haven't been practicing for 20-30+ years.
Whereas my father (who employs my "wife") seems to sort of love all the minutiae and piddling cases. Granted he has two lawyers in his shop that can show up for the hearings at 8am so he doesn't have to get out of bed that early, but I still very rarely hear him complain about the nature of any case.
So, diff'rent strokes, to a great degree.
If you're deeply into the law, I'd say it's worth your time, effort and money. But nowadays you certainly can't pursue a JD thinking it's a path to a cushy position somewhere. The market is totally flooded, and it will be for a while. That said, there will always be a need for PD's.
whenry
HalfDork
7/25/13 8:56 a.m.
Go and talk to attorneys in your local area. Buy them lunch and ask questions. Each area will have its own dynamics. Here in East Tenn, we have 4 law schools who graduate newbies every year with no prospects for real jobs.
This isnt Perry Mason, To Kill a Mockingbird or even A Time to Kill. You do periodically get to help someone who really appreciates it but generally, there is too much pressure to win every case to make this an enjoyable job. I am competitive by nature so I enjoy the courtroom time but you make money on the phone, not in court. I didnt go to law school to look at a computer 24/7 and that is the job now.
I was always real interested in property law, and I think it'd be cool to work on recreation and liability.
I've also known quite a few lawyers who after working for a years in a practise eventually start their own, and are non-retired snowbirds.
bgkast
HalfDork
7/25/13 9:10 a.m.
I watch Law and order occasionally.
Thanks guys. This is all good info. I have been picking the brains of the people I know personally who are attorneys. Some have been practicing for 10+ years, others just graduated. Some work in the private sector, others are federal prosecutors. I'm in the exploratory stages right now, so I'm just trying to get as wide a sample as possible. My biggest concern is going from my currently $70K/year salary back to being a student and still needing to support my wife and 2 young kids. My motivation is that I've always been fascinated with the law, the Constitution, ad the legal system and it seems like it would be a good fit. I know I'll have to put in some years banking only about $50k, but I know there is also potential to make more -- that's not my sole motivator, but like I said, I've got a family to support as well.
Having spoken to a few attorneys, as I mentioned, I understand that my biggest advantage right now is that I will get to use the GI Bill to pay for a big chunk of the degree, so I won't be leaving school with quite the crushing debt that some others have. From what my friends have said, this can easily give me a bit more leeway in finding a job in a field I enjoy rather than being forced to take the first thing that comes along just because I have so much money to repay. Thoughts on this statement?
In reply to DustoffDave:
Just this, given the number of unemployed former law students out there, I would NEVER recommend ANYONE leaving a job with a $70K salary to go to law school. The financial returns just won't be there. If you were single and just needed to keep a roof over your head, maybe. With a family, no way. Is it possible you will eventually increase your earning potential? Sure. But to make more than $70K in law, whomever is paying you will think they own you. They will expect 60-70 hours weeks as an "average" and more when important stuff is coming up. That sort of stuff is really hard on a family. That's after your family lives with you for 3 years while you are stressed out, preoccupied, grumpy, tired and unemployed/underemployed during school.
PHeller
UberDork
7/25/13 12:07 p.m.
kazoospec wrote:
I would NEVER recommend ANYONE leaving a job with a $70K salary to go to law school.
My post about me going back to get an engineering degree was because my current employer would pay for it, and I'd get a raise and a position once completed.
With your salary, leaving the job, added stress of getting the degree, and earning potential, I'd say use your current job and salary to get a job somewhere doing something similar but maybe a more enjoyable environment.
I haven't been to Law School but I watch Franklin and Bash all the time and it looks like a great career. Female lawyers are all hot and there is lots of bikini clad women running around.
Oh yeah, my last lawyer charged me $375 an hour. So there should be some good money in it
Wife used to work in a law office as a legal secretary -- she's retired, as she says, from working with a bunch of nondescript a##holes.
In general, what I heard by osmosis over the past 20 years:
Work in a large practice and your goal is to reach partner. You'll be able to specialize in a field that the practice supports (ie, real estate, corporate law, patents)......but you will be putting in long hours and most likely doing all you can to pull in new clients as well.
As a graduate trying to get into a large practice near you -- you'll have to be good. Larger practices want candidates from larger schools with good law schools/reps. And then, they will be looking at the top 5 percent of the graduating class, max. More like top 2 to 3 percent.
Work in a smaller practice is possible, plan on doing more family law, probate, small business law. Same hours, less pay.
All sounds to me like less time available to play with cars.......
In reply to kazoospec:
I should qualify my $70K/year salary -- I'm an active duty Army officer -- so family hardship is nothing new to us. Among MANY other reasons, that is one of the things that is helping us to make the decision to leave the military. My boys are 4 and 1. I missed the oldest's entire first year while in Iraq and the youngest's birth while at some training. The oldest is reaching the age where I need/want to be there as a dad for him, hence the reason we are starting to explore future career options. I'm eligible to leave the service in the spring of 2015, so we are beginning to do our research now in order to be prepared.
I greatly appreciate your candid input.
I worked in IT at a corporate law firm for 4 years and here is what I learned there. Of all the Lawyers at the firm the ones that seemed the happiest were the Patent and Construction guys. The rest just seemed to just be doing what they had to do but there was no real joy in what they were doing. YMMV.