anybody know about burning bamboo?

I have a bit of a dilemma.

I'm a bread baker, and I've had the pleasure of working with a wood burning oven. It has been years since I had that oven, and I still can't shake the thought of building one and basing a business around it. It's terribly romantic, and appealing to me on a very deep level.

But it's also undeniably impractical for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the fuel source. The environmental impact of literally burning trees can't be downplayed, but it's also a major headache for me to base a business in a relatively substantial and sprawling metropolitan area on a fuel source that I'd have to literally truck in.

So, I'm thinking of bamboo for a variety of reasons. I could plant and harvest it myself on a relatively cheap lot in the city, closer to my business than a trip out to the exurbs. It's much more quickly renewable than soft- or hardwoods. (Of course I'd be sure to properly contain it so I don't unleash its weedlike nature onto surrounding properties.)

But I don't know how bamboo burns. Obviously it would have to be seasoned to some degree before it's properly combustible. It's also a totally different plant than other woods, so...how does it burn?

The style of oven I want to work with is referred to as a black oven, which means the fire is built in the same chamber as the cooking. In the case of baking bread, that means you build a big, hot fire, let it burn out, let all the heat soak into the hearth, the dome, and the insulating materials, and then you bake with that residual heat. Alternately, you build a smaller fire off to the side or in a corner, then cook with that heat, like in a traditional pizza oven.

So, given a similar volume of bamboo to let's say a softwood, can I expect a relatively similar rate of burn? Could I load my oven with bamboo and get it up to a similar temperature for a similar length of time?

Bamboo has a lot of water content and tends to fizz, pop if not outright explode. After storms there's usually CL ads for lots of free firewood if you're willing to go get it.

I'd worry about the flavor the wood/bamboo would impart on the baked goods... bamboo seems it would burn bitter.

I've only burned bamboo clearing lots, which won't be a lot of help to you.

Couple of thoughts...

First off, bamboo is not a wood, it is a grass. That shouldn't matter much (still fuel), But it has a hollow (or punky) core which will burn differently. The volume of fuel is not equal to the volume of wood.

Secondly, I know nothing about baking bread. Do you bake on softwood? (Most) Hardwoods burn slower, and hotter with less pitch and smoke, which I assume would make a huge difference to bread baking.

Thirdly, bamboo burns fast. If you are going to harvest it, you might need a HUGE volume in storage. Because of it's fast burn, it would not generate as much heat to heat up the oven.

It's burn is fast and violent. Because it is hollow on the inside, it can store moisture which pops and "explodes" when burned. This might be OK for pre-heating a sturdy oven, but would not be controllable for direct cooking. You can split it to eliminate the voids, but that would be a LOT of work.

It gives off a lot of soot. Of course, I've only burned it green. Don't know what would happen if it was dryed.

I'd also want to know if any toxins are potentially released in the soot which could be absorbed in food products. Keep in mind, there are different characteristics to the burn for different forms of bamboo. Different species, dry vs wet, ground, split, etc would all give different burns.

It's an idea worth pursuing. Might work, but you'd have to play with it.

mndsm said: I'd worry about the flavor the wood/bamboo would impart on the baked goods... bamboo seems it would burn bitter.

In this case, the fire and all traces of it aside from its heat are gone from the chamber by the time the cooking/baking takes place. If I were to do any live-fire cooking, I'd pop for some nice hardwood.

oldtin said: Bamboo has a lot of water content and tends to fizz, pop if not outright explode.

Do you know if that would be mitigated by proper seasoning? Also, I'm using this in a totally enclosed chamber, so it may not be an issue.

The general rule of thumb for a black oven like I'm considering is: the best kind of wood to use is free. In this case, heat's heat, and that's all the wood is used for.

All traces? What about the sooty char on the walls of the oven?

oldtin said: Bamboo has a lot of water content and tends to fizz, pop if not outright explode.

Do you know if that would be mitigated by proper seasoning? Also, I'm using this in a totally enclosed chamber, so it may not be an issue.

It's not the water, it's the water in the encased voids. It turns to steam, pressurizes, and blows. You may be able to eliminate a lot of the water, but the better solution is to eliminate the void through splitting, etc. It's violent enough to damage a small oven.

Additionally, what is proper seasoning? As I said earlier, depending on the rate in which you burn it, you could need VAST storage of this stuff while you "season" it. It will burn quickly and not generate a lot of heat for the volume you will have to store.

alex wrote: The general rule of thumb for a black oven like I'm considering is: the best kind of wood to use is free. In this case, heat's heat, and that's all the wood is used for.

The best kind of wood is free, or the best kind of fuel is free? There's some things that you SHOULD NOT burn, even though they give heat and may be free.

As noted earlier, bamboo is not wood. It is grass.

All traces? What about the sooty char on the walls of the oven?

Soot/char burns off at about 600°F. Fires in the chamber will approach or exceed 1000°F.

Fuel = wood = whatever. The oven doesn't care. The environment etc. might care, but the oven doesn't. It's a giant heat sink; heat is heat.

The oven is big/massive enough that I have my doubts (just gut instinct) that the pops/explosions from bamboo would hurt it. We're talking about a lot of mass here, not a small oven.

I understand what you're getting at in terms of volume of product versus the potential energy contained therein.

SVreX is right on about the voids. The best solution is labor intensive in splitting to minimize the big pops and explosions. Around here there have been a bunch of storms. There are still thousands of tons of tree trunks/branches/limbs laying by curbs all over - mostly oak - just waiting for pick up - I've seen a few that are several feet in diameter.

Is splitting bamboo any more labor/cost intensive than splitting hardwood (or buying split/cut hardwood)?

As much as I like the idea of free wood on the roadside, this bamboo line of thought is based on the idea of having a consistent, reliable and readily renewable fuel source.

Yes. Significantly.

3600 C.I of wood could be split from an 8" dia log 18" long with only 3 splits.

You'd have to split 208 pieces of 3/4" dia bamboo with 1/8" thick walls to equal the same volume.

If you hook up with the tree services, you may be able to get pretty consistent supplies of free wood.

Most tree services have contracts with power companies to maintain their power line right-of-ways. They usually cut and drop the material, and it is often free to anyone who wants to cut it up and haul it.

How often do you fire up the oven? Is this a once a month deal, or every day?

since "heat is heat", then you could burn drain oil instead of wood..

My dad worked at a bakery with ovens like that, and they used propane flamethrower things to heat it, no wood at all if I remember right.

You talking about doing this in a city, or out in the countryside? Many cities take a semi-dim view of solid fuel burning, so you're likely to have some hurdles to get through/over on that point.

If the bread is being heated directly in the exhaust stream of the fuel, I strongly disagree with you about the material not affecting the taste of the food.

Cutting bamboo to lengths is hard. You have to use a saw, not an axe. It's a fibery grass, an axe cannot get through it. Well, at least not worth a darn. Splitting it would not be necessary, it's not wide enough to need splitting. Beware the splinters, they are sharp and long. Cutting bamboo is a lot like working with fiberglass insulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_charcoal There is some information about it as a fuel though.

Bamboo has good ash/soot/heat content numbers but it is harder to prepare for a good burn. I ran some through a chipper for use in a small woodburning stove and it worked great. You do need to crack those chambers open, even in seemingly well cured stalks, or they will pop or explode. Been trying to sweet talk a local hose and pipe shop out of a hydraulic hose cutter for mounting on my riding mower. figured some sort of cut and crush method would be the ticket!

Bruce

alex wrote: heat's heat, and that's all the wood is used for.

Then build a gas fired black oven and leave some hickory twigs lying around to scentthe air for your customers.

Pallets. Usually oak, always a hard wood. Free for the taking out back of many places. Pallet companies always have scrap wood. No load on the environment, you are using already harvested product. Burns real clean and hot. This was my camping wood, and still use it for back yard fires.

Have you worked backwards from how much you plan to use this oven? How much wood do they typically burn? How many BTUs is that? How much bamboo does that translate to? How long does it take you to process that bamboo? How much space and for how long do you need to dry this stuff?

Here's some per-acre yield info, though obviously it's region dependent: http://www.ag.auburn.edu/hort/landscape/bamboo.html

Also worth noting that wood is carbon neutral, unlike just about every other heat source, so there's that. As for the smoke, you might be able to engineer an oven that made some use of catalysts or smoke recirc/reburn like modern wood stoves use. I burn 3 cords of wood every winter in the city and once the stove is hot it runs so clean you'd never know it was running from outside the house.

I like the ideas of using scrap pallet wood and the idea of a wood chipper for the bamboo. I think the best work vs benefit way to utilize the bamboo would be the chipper. IF you could chip it green, it would season quickly. I still think you will need a LOT more bamboo to reach oven temp than with hardwood, but if the supply side works, that's a minor obstacle. I hear what you're saying about no trace of fire by the time you bake, but I'd sure try baking something just in case a taste signature remains. You for one certainly know how acute human sense of smell (taste) can be.

You might want to drive around and see if there are areas in town where babmboo is a problem plant. i know here in Macon there are several areas that are city maintained where they have to cut the bamboo back yearly. Maybe you could score free fuel that way as well...

or you could plant a little bamboo on city property, then offer to cull it when it becomes a problem

alex wrote: The general rule of thumb for a black oven like I'm considering is: the best kind of wood to use is free. In this case, heat's heat, and that's all the wood is used for.

I know it wouldn't quite be the same, but what if you made it a gas brick oven? Like you've said, in the manner the type of oven you're talking about cooks, heat is heat.

It's definitely possible, though not with the exact oven plans I'd be working with. And us wood-oven guys tend to find it a bit disingenuous to build an oven that looks wood fired, then fire it with gas.

If I go gas, which I certainly will in the very near term, I'll just buy a gas oven.

I want a wood oven. I just don't know if it's practical enough.

I would strongly recommend you not use pallets. I've been involved with that industry for many years. There's a lot of pesticides applied to many pallets, and you'd have no idea just looking at them. And used, quite a bit of mixed fluids soaked in there that you also don't want to ingest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXdoQ1eeGgo&feature=related

40# of bamboo burning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMSWqbPMWaQ

bamboo cooking fire