Anybody know anything about raisin' cattle?

Well do ya?

piggy-backing on the "HAAAAAAY" thread. 

We've got 20 acres of good pasture with a big creek (river) on the back side of the property.

It was obviously used to raise cattle at some point (fenced with barbed-wire, remnants of gates, etc.)

All the good ole boys who've come out to do work on the property keep asking "When are y'all gonna put 20-30 head o' cattle out here?"

I don't know the first thing about it, but I've been reading about it quite a bit. Formula seems pretty simple. Give them food, water, shelter, (and perhaps some immunization?) and they're good to go(?)

Your thoughts?

I know a lot about consuming them...

Advice from my grandfather who was a beef rancher.

Get a breed that is efficient at turning food into meat.

Angus are just for show, they're pretty small. The only reason angus has a name is because the angus breeders went on a big marketing binge a long time ago.

No-one knows what kind of cow it was when it's hanging from a hook.

Limousin and Charolais are good producers, Herefords if you want a smaller breed.

"Cut the goddamn horns off unless you're some idiot Texan who wants to get gored by an angry momma looking after her calf" - My grandfather.

I have to say he was right about the horns part. I had to run a little bit last week when I was helping the wife unit take care of a customers farm for the weekend and the horses managed to bust the fence and get in with some highland cattle that weren't de-horned. Mom wasn't happy when we were trying to get the horses back where they belong.

Try to keep the weeds down, cows are dumb as a box of rocks and will eat stuff that is bad for them whereas horses generally won't.  

Watch out for holes and hollows in the ground. Sometimes a cow will lay down in one and can't get back up on her own. She'll roll around trying to get up until she gets her guts all twisted up and dies.

You only need one bull, maybe less.

When you take your cow to be serviced (bred) you'll learn why the government calls it "public service".

One more thing...

If you're doing this for yourself, you're going to get a lot of hamburger.

There's only so much steak in one cow.

In Texas some friends had a hobby farm on their property and it made a significant difference in their property taxes.  

All I got...

I've been told that cow paddy shrooms are good. By someone ...

There is a couple ways to do it. My dad has about twelve cows and a bull. Every year the cows make the calves. He keeps a couple heifers to replace the aging cows and sells the steers when they get big. It works but is a pretty inneficient to turn cows into money. Plus it takes a lot of hay to feed the cows through winter. You being down south i assume that would be less of an issue.

A more common way is to buy feeder calves. You see a lot of holsteins anymore because the bull calves are cheap. The dairy farmers dont want them so they are cheaper than traditional beef breeds. They are kind of funny, they get into and chew on everything. They are like big goats. You will want to feed them ground corn and corn silage, letting them walk around all day eating nothing but grass they arent going to get fat very quick.

Cows don't eat raisins. Just sayin.

You'll get some funny looks, but Joel Salatin has successfully raised cattle using an intensive method. Instead of free grazing over all the acreage, he forces them to mow a smaller field and then waits about 3 weeks for the grass to recover. This means his cows are eating all the vegetation, not just the juiciest bits first. Also, it means that the grass growing, which is not a linear growth pattern, gets the cows the eating the grass at its highest volume as often as possible.

This is a terrible explanation. Go read his books.

In reply to Johnboyjjb :

I think what youre talking about is called strip grazing or strip pasturing. It makes sense and should work.

My in-laws pick up feeder calves every year. They spend the summer in the high country then come down to the valley for winter. They're allowed to wander around the field but also get fed hay from the same field. They usually sell most off and the rest go to the family. He got Holsteins once but usually gets a different breed. I don't know what kind, they're beige.

They also keep pigs in a corner of the field and some chooks for eggs. The latter are the most work. For us, it means a constant stream of farm-fresh eggs and a freezer full of the best beef and pork you've ever tasted.

Keith Tanner said:

 I don't know what kind, they're beige.

Camry.

Another tip from my grandfather.

Name the cow after the sister nobody likes.

I heard it through the grapevine...

Unless you want to put up hay also, buy yearling steers in the spring and sell them to a feedlot in the fall.  You get less $ per pound that way, but it's less work.  You can do cow/calf , but you'll need a bull, hay and all the equipment needed for that.  Eventually you'll have slightly less annual cash outflow, on paper anyway.  It's more work.  I wouldn't bother with doctoring them if you do steers.  You might get pinkeye or something, but they generally recover, though the affected eye will be basically blind.  If they don't recover, you can write it off on your taxes, which is handy for other purchases too.  I "knew a guy" that bought a Cessna 152 and 1946 Taylorcraft BC12D "to check on the cattle" and wrote most of the expense off as farming expenditures.  Organic, aka not doctored, cows generally get a premium.  If you do hire a vet, watch what he does so you can doctor your own cattle later to save money.

You're looking at around $15K to get 20 head.  Unless you plan to supplement feed or have exceptional pastures, I wouldn't go much over 1 cow  or cow/calf per acre.  Raising beef, you'll probably make a few hundred per head.  We always see more profit on black cows, so I'd get something like Angus or Black Baldy.

Other, likely more profitable, options would be to rent your pastures or make hay and sell it.

Lots of good advice already. 

Let the cattle eat the grass, feed them some hay, never treat them for diseases or give them supplements, and sell them as organic grass-fed (aka tough) beef. 

Listen to this song carefully.  There is a lot of truth in Corbs words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nk8-MqnHlw

There should have been a verse about how they always decide to calve in the middle of the night, in the rain, when you are supposed to be somewhere really important with your wife.

I'm not sure what you want to know?  Everything?

My folks have ~300 acres, grandparents had ~120 acres, mostly cattle pasture.  Close to 200 head between the two, a little bit of everything at one point or another, mostly Simmental, and Simmental influenced crosses, but there's been some Brahma, Angus, grandpa got on a Limousin kick for a while, dad has some Wagyu crosses now, and when I was in high school I had a dozen Angus/Holstein cross cows of my own.  I was raised showing cattle, super active in 4-H and FFA, showing, judging, quiz bowl, etc., even went to college on an animal science scholorship before changing majors.

I'm far from an expert but I know a thing or two, if I were you I'd get in touch with your local Cooperative Extension Service, they'll have an agricultural specialist, or a few, tell them what you're wanting to do, invite them out to your farm, and they'll be able to tell you what to do or not to do, for FREE even.  Support your Land Grant Colleges folks!

The Extension Agent will be significantly more familiar with what breeds, feeds, and marketing work best in your area, and what you can expect to reliably manage with the soil, vegitation, and space you have to work with.

I will say this, if you don't have a place to work cattle, i.e. some kind of working pen, head chute, and a safe/reliable place to load a trailer, don't even think about getting a herd, all the support structure should be in place first.

Dang dudes! Thanks!

The recommendation I've heard from locals is to buy calves, sell 'em when they're good and tasty, keep one for slaughter, rinse, repeat.

I dunno if I want to get into the whole breeding thing.

In reply to bigdaddylee82 :

Awesome info! Thanks! There are pens on the property. Totally overgrown, but I've got a guy out there clearing out brush AS WE SPEAK!!!

I grew up around cattle and have about 40 head of my own. I also help  manage 100 head of my dads. Do you have a reason that you want cattle? Is it just to keep the grass down? Do you have a barrel of money you need to spend? Do you need more responsibility or a reason to not go on vacation? You won't make any money most likely but they could be a good tax write off. As mentioned if you do not have facilities then you will be buying panels, gates and a squeeze chute. Do you have a tractor to feed round bales? Do you have round bale feeders? You could feed square bales  but they will cost more and require more labor. The goal is to feed as little hay as possible but you will be feed some. If the hay is not good quality then you wil be supplementing with grain of some sort. Buy your hay, its not at all economical to make your own unless your running alot of cattle on more acres than you have. If your new to cattle I would NOT buy calves. That would be a train wreck waiting to happen. They will get sick and some will die. It would be better if you knew of a local farm you could buy cattle from and forgo buying them from a sale barn. They will be exposed to anything and everything at the sale barn and your probably buying someone elses problem. I highly recommend a vaccination schedule. Unless you know of a market where you can get a premium for organic/natural beef I would not take the chances. Not to mention you could not sell them as organic unless your certified and that may be some hoops you probably don't want to jump through. You could sell them as all "Natural" but again is there a market you can get a premium for such animals? If not there would most likely be discounts for not vaccinating or castrating your calves.  Its hard to say how many you can run on your pasture with out seeing it but I would guess you can run 7 to 10 cow/calf pairs. Is your 20 acres cross fenced? Rotational grazing would be a big help in stretching your grazing and improving your pasture. Do you have a pond or multiple watering sources? Do you have adequate shade?

Back to my first two original questions. If you don't have to buy cattle and have plenty other hobbies to keep you busy I would consider renting out your land as pasture or as hay ground.  Lots of things to consider. If having cattle is something you think you would enjoy then start small. Buy 5 bred cows or cow calf pairs rent a bull from a neighbor for breeding season and see how you like it. if you don't like it then sell out and rent your place out as mentioned. Get with your local county extension office and they can help you out ALOT for FREE!

poopshovel again said:

Dang dudes! Thanks!

The recommendation I've heard from locals is to buy calves, sell 'em when they're good and tasty, keep one for slaughter, rinse, repeat.

I dunno if I want to get into the whole breeding thing.

That is excellent advice.  As I mentioned above, the only additional suggestion is to not winter them.  Otherwise you're adding hay making, storage, and feeding to the work list.  You don't make as much buying yearlings, but it's easier.  Growing up, we did cow/calf.  I paid for my first car (a '58 MGA Coupe, which I still have) by feeding cows square bales at 5:00am every winter morning.  I hated every sub-zero, diesel and manure stinking second of it, but I earned car money and some developed a work ethic.  Now it's buy in the spring and sell in the fall.

In reply to poopshovel again :

Do you have an appropriate tool to clean the poop out of the barn?

We've considered getting a couple for personal consumption, but I know we'd just end up with an empty freezer and some pet cows.

I will add something for ridinwitcj73's credentials, we met in College and we both got degrees in Agriculture.  Not only does he have his own cattle farm, he started his career as a high school agriculture teacher, and the past several years, he has been one of those County Ag Agents we were both telling you to get in touch with.  I'd listen to him.  

I'll play, grew up on a farm. Mostly wheat but we had up to 120 cows and some pigs so we didn't get bored.

Unless you are really bored don't get into breeding. There is a lot to know/learn, its easy to lose your money.

Don't buy calves, you'll have to feed them through the winter, and one problem and its easy to lose your money.

Organic needs to be certified as such and you need to have a market to get a premium price and its easy to lose your money.

Yearlings are probably the easiest and simplest. Buy in the spring and sell in the fall.

Just remember that 20 head is a job in addition to whatever you already do. Cows like to wander and if your fences aren't good they will always be out whenever you need to go somewhere.

If you want a hobby just to learn something new and get some meat and a little money back on a lot of hours invested go for it. If you are doing it for the money, fix the corrals and fences, get some water in place and rent your pasture to someone else.