What a great time for the boys at the Skunkworks at Lockheed to announce they've solved cold fusion! 
What a great time for the boys at the Skunkworks at Lockheed to announce they've solved cold fusion!
yamaha wrote:mad_machine wrote:And strangely enough, the top 15% of earners pay 60% of the tax dollars that fund the country....strange how all that works huh?oldeskewltoy wrote: very soon... the 1% will be controlling 50% of the wealth......Funny how little this gets into the news.. even here, it got completely ignored.
yes and no.. they pay more in personal income tax.. but you will find that most of the "spending power" resides with the middle class.. which is quickly getting decimated in this world.
It's like the fallacy that somehow the top 1% are the "job creators" no, the middle class are the job creators, people who own businesses do not just create jobs for the joy of it, they do it to keep up with demand for goods and services.
yamaha wrote:mad_machine wrote:And strangely enough, the top 15% of earners pay 60% of the tax dollars that fund the country....strange how all that works huh?oldeskewltoy wrote: very soon... the 1% will be controlling 50% of the wealth......Funny how little this gets into the news.. even here, it got completely ignored.
All your numbers mean... is the 14% after the 1%... have a HUGE tax burden.... for you can bet the top 1% is not paying 50% of the taxes.
At some point the acquisition of wealth by a few individuals hurts/hinders society as a whole... WHERE that point is???????????
I don't worry about a global financial collapse. Why you ask?
Simple: the "Powers-That-Be" (ie: those top 1%ers) have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Sure, things may get E36 M3ty for many but if the system breaks down completely what would be the point of accumulating billions only to have your vast wealth become valueless and end up playing second fiddle to a good-ole-boy with a 4x4 and a scoped rifle?
No, the worlds oligarchs want to keep things just the way they are now.
The_Jed wrote: I assumed they just sampled and presented the data that most strongly supported their view, but yes, I noticed too.
That's what I was figuring. But there is the slight possibility that they're REALLY bad at math 
In reply to oldeskewltoy:
I think the worst part is the middle class is paying the other 40%+ because they're a much larger group. But the worst part, and I am probably being really generous here, 35+% of the population doesn't pay any real part of taxes yet reaps massive benefits of it. The system is broken, but I fear taxing the wealthy even more to make up for those who don't contribute is a foolish idea. Those people are more likely to invest in things so long as it might pay off or not crowded with buracracy. They didn't get to the top 15% by not taking risks after all.
even if individuals as a whole become less debt based in their economic habits, that wont stop larger entities from needing to draw debt to accomplish tasks of the modern age.
but there has to be some type of governor in play in the system.
right now, the US Government is borrowing money ahead at a rate far enough that it is committing people who havent been conceived yet to finance itself.
KyAllroad wrote: I don't worry about a global financial collapse. Why you ask? Simple: the "Powers-That-Be" (ie: those top 1%ers) have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Sure, things may get E36 M3ty for many but if the system breaks down completely what would be the point of accumulating billions only to have your vast wealth become valueless and end up playing second fiddle to a good-ole-boy with a 4x4 and a scoped rifle? No, the worlds oligarchs want to keep things just the way they are now.
They do have it in their interest to maintain the status quo, but do they have the foresight and self-control to do it successfully? It's like expecting a coke fiend not to pawn everything they own for more nose candy. Sure it's in their best interest...but many fail to do it.
And right now they're going full Tony Montana on it, making massive double-digit income increases year over year.
After the Great Depression, people were rallying for communism in the streets before the rich thought that maybe things weren't going so well - and that's when there were communist countries giving capitalist ones something to prove.
I'm young, but I see that the big corporations are making record profits, yet supposedly can't give me and other low income earners a raise, maintain the stores to a respectable level, hire me for a higher status/income job, etc., yet they constantly complain that the big bad government taxes them too much so people actually believe this E36 M3. I don't like that CEOs justify paying a low minimum wage. When is poverty good? Other developed countries across the world tax big corporations more than our government does, yet the mainstream media never talks about it. I also get tired of CEOs and other businessmen claim about how much Obama is terrible on the news when he does the same old establishment policies that a Republican president would have done that keep corporate tax low. Both parties work for the corporations, yet the Republican party is supposedly the "good" party. We have to get money out of politics.
I also pulled this off of Wikipedia under the distribution of wealth page.
However, after the Great Recession which started in 2007, the share of total wealth owned by the top 1% of the population grew from 34.6% to 37.1%, and that owned by the top 20% of Americans grew from 85% to 87.7%. The Great Recession also caused a drop of 36.1% in median household wealth but a drop of only 11.1% for the top 1%, further widening the gap between the 1% and the 99%.[18][19][20] During the economic expansion between 2002 and 2007, the income of the top 1% grew 10 times faster than the income of the bottom 90%. In this period 66% of total income gains went to the 1%, who in 2007 had a larger share of total income than at any time since 1928.
That last line is a bit scary.
GameboyRMH wrote:KyAllroad wrote: I don't worry about a global financial collapse. Why you ask? Simple: the "Powers-That-Be" (ie: those top 1%ers) have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Sure, things may get E36 M3ty for many but if the system breaks down completely what would be the point of accumulating billions only to have your vast wealth become valueless and end up playing second fiddle to a good-ole-boy with a 4x4 and a scoped rifle? No, the worlds oligarchs want to keep things just the way they are now.They do have it in their interest to maintain the status quo, but do they have the foresight and self-control to do it successfully? It's like expecting a coke fiend not to pawn everything they own for more nose candy. Sure it's in their best interest...but many fail to do it. And right now they're going full Tony Montana on it, making massive double-digit income increases year over year. After the Great Depression, people were rallying for communism in the streets before the rich thought that maybe things weren't going so well - and that's when there were communist countries giving capitalist ones something to prove.
What do you do when you've accumulated all of the wealth that is attainable within the span of a lifetime? (For the moment forgetting inherited wealth and influence.)
I'm just a machinist, I don't know very much about economics or the psychology of the uber rich. I don't even fully grasp the politics of executive and managerial power games (they seem petty, childish and counter-productive to me) but it seems to me that the next logical step, once one has achieved this rich guy "nirvana", is you set about either gaining control over or destroying the other rich people so you are the grand architect of the global market. Tug a string and a nation starves. Start a company and it's more profitable than anything in history.
Once again, this is just conjecture from a pessimistic misanthrope who grew up in abject poverty and has a huge chip on his shoulder when it comes to the wealthy. But that's what I'm worried about; surviving the battles between the mega corporations and/or the ultra rich. We would all be caught in the crossfire and annihilated without a single thought.
Wow... that got heavy. 
Time for booze or exercise...
Appleseed wrote:
And the barrier between the middle class and poor is semi-permeable; easy to fall through, difficult to climb through.
The_Jed wrote:GameboyRMH wrote:What do you do when you've accumulated all of the wealth that is attainable within the span of a lifetime? (For the moment forgetting inherited wealth and influence.) I'm just a machinist, I don't know very much about economics or the psychology of the uber rich. I don't even fully grasp the politics of executive and managerial power games (they seem petty, childish and counter-productive to me) but it seems to me that the next logical step, once one has achieved this rich guy "nirvana", is you set about either gaining control over or destroying the other rich people so you are the grand architect of the global market. Tug a string and a nation starves. Start a company and it's more profitable than anything in history. Once again, this is just conjecture from a pessimistic misanthrope who grew up in abject poverty and has a huge chip on his shoulder when it comes to the wealthy. But that's what I'm worried about; surviving the battles between the mega corporations and/or the ultra rich. We would all be caught in the crossfire and annihilated without a single thought. Wow... that got heavy.KyAllroad wrote: I don't worry about a global financial collapse. Why you ask? Simple: the "Powers-That-Be" (ie: those top 1%ers) have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Sure, things may get E36 M3ty for many but if the system breaks down completely what would be the point of accumulating billions only to have your vast wealth become valueless and end up playing second fiddle to a good-ole-boy with a 4x4 and a scoped rifle? No, the worlds oligarchs want to keep things just the way they are now.They do have it in their interest to maintain the status quo, but do they have the foresight and self-control to do it successfully? It's like expecting a coke fiend not to pawn everything they own for more nose candy. Sure it's in their best interest...but many fail to do it. And right now they're going full Tony Montana on it, making massive double-digit income increases year over year. After the Great Depression, people were rallying for communism in the streets before the rich thought that maybe things weren't going so well - and that's when there were communist countries giving capitalist ones something to prove.
Dude by the name of Carl Marx covered this all off 150 years ago.
In the 40's 50's and 60's the labour force was able to fight back vi the unions. However, once manufacturing became a portable commodity these unions became counter-productive by just driving manufacturing out of developed countries that had strong unions.
What has to happen next is a leveling of the playing field where the developing country workers rise to the same level as Western Workers (and western workers slide down to meet them). At that point either the .1% have become benevolent despots, or they will be seen as tyrants and the world will turn against them. Give it another 150 years or so.
150? I think you added an extra zero!
In reply to NOHOME:
FWIW, its already happening with Russia, Putin allegedly has a lot of dirty money that's been swindled from Russia....the rumor is, he might be the wealthiest man in the world. Strange for someone brought up in communism to be able to do so well...oh wait, that's because communism doesn't work.
Communism does work, yamaha. It is just that you don't understand what it was designed to do. Very very few become very very rich and everyone else is poor. That's communism. That's what The O has in mind for us. What did you think that "change" thing was going to be?
GB, I think you're right about the extra zero. Anything that can't last forever, ends. It's just a matter of "when?"
yamaha wrote: In reply to NOHOME: FWIW, its already happening with Russia, Putin allegedly has a lot of dirty money that's been swindled from Russia....the rumor is, he might be the wealthiest man in the world. Strange for someone brought up in communism to be able to do so well...oh wait, that's because communism doesn't work.
Since at the core of all social systems we are dealing with the same base organism (humans) all systems are going to work about the same subject to the same rule: "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Communism did not fail because the theory is wrong, it failed because in a society of "Equals" it very quickly developed an elite that were above the rest of society. It rotted from within.
The same deal is going on with North America. (I include Canada) Capitalism responds to "capital" since it was designed to do so from the outset. As "capital" becomes concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer individuals, the system applies less and less to those who don't have the capital to control the system. North America likes to delude itself with the illusion of a "Vote" bestowing some power to the ordinary citizen that will prevent this corruption, but it just ain't so. There is not enough difference between the parties to make a difference: You want a red monster or a blue monster? Neither one of them work for you.
Dr. Hess wrote: Communism does work, yamaha. It is just that you don't understand what it was designed to do. Very very few become very very rich and everyone else is poor. That's communism. That's what The O has in mind for us. What did you think that "change" thing was going to be? GB, I think you're right about the extra zero. Anything that can't last forever, ends. It's just a matter of "when?"
That is exactly what the Bolsheviks realized, it was almost as good of a "Move money from the general population's pockets to ours" as the rise of organized religions. 
The stock market is probably a distant 3rd behind those other two.
Here's what I don't get.
Many who are anti-tax tend to say "we'd do better with less taxes", but they are the types who usually contend that our system should reward those with good ideas, reward those who work hard, and reward those who aren't stupid with their money.
The thing is, we've created people so wealthy that they no longer need good ideas, no longer need to work, and can be as stupid with their money as they'd like and they'll still be incredibly wealthy for GENERATIONS.
Even the barons of the early 20th century could squander away their money, but they left the rest of us with museums,schools, railroads, bridges and other infrastructure built in their name.
Todays 1% doesn't seem to be doing this, at least on the scale of early 1900s industry oligarchs.
I'd like to see more wealth doing stuff like Elon Musk. Stuff made in America, that will hopefully benefit all of us.
The only difference between capitalism and communism is the color of the suites...IBM blue vs military green.
Whatever, at the end of the day, there always has been and always will be a small minority that has much better stuff than everyone else.
The way I see it ... all forms of religion and government are the same basic thing. Human resource management. Some are better to work FOR than others but none want work FOR YOU once the ball gets rolling.
Hell, propaganda and patriotism are there to make you choose one team over another in spite your own best interests.
I lucked out to be born into one that isn't as bad as it could be.
RX Reven' wrote: The only difference between capitalism and communism is the color of the suites...IBM blue vs military green.
Communism also produces more bitchin' beards.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: The way I see it ... all forms of religion and government are the same basic thing. Human resource management. Some are better to work FOR than others but none want work FOR YOU once the ball gets rolling....
Yes, as most eventually realize, HR is there to protect the COMPANY from YOU.
NOHOME wrote: ...North America likes to delude itself with the illusion of a "Vote" bestowing some power to the ordinary citizen that will prevent this corruption...
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